Ikonic buildings

Orthodox factions(Russia/Byzantine) get Ikonic line of buildings, these are however quite expensive and by the time (as Russia anyway) I can build them I basically have already converted the population.

So do people think they are useful? Perhaps if you were spammed by catholic priests you might use them but generally i'd just build 2nd level church and spam with my priests.

I'd prefer the academies of the catholic factions to get some interesting unit.

Or the top level had empire wide effect on all chuches, expensive but dooable say 15k and increase effectiveness of all churches by 25%.

Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Razor1952

Or the top level had empire wide effect on all chuches, expensive but dooable say 15k and increase effectiveness of all churches by 25%.

Any thoughts?

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Hmm, that's an interesting one. I've found high level conversion buildings can be necessary for settlements bordering other religions (which happens a lot when you're orthodox), as there is some religious spillover effect from the neighbor. You could just keep priests there, but it's probably more efficient to park them in the enemy province you intend to take next, to 1. cause unrest there and 2. start the population converting there so you have less unrest from the start when you take it. Since you can't build churches in the enemy province (duh), it makes sense to build better religion buildings on your borders and then send your priests into enemy lands to spread the word ahead of your invasion forces. I do tend to agree that the religion amplification the ikon buildings provide is a bit late and so not too useful, but don't forget that heresy always threatens you even if catholics aren't, so having that extra cushion never hurts. Also, don't overlook that the ikon buildings provide health bonuses to the city, which in and of themselves make the buildings useful to build. Especially as your empire branches out it's very nice to have more access to PO bonuses (I think they contribute to city growth too which is, again, a huge thing), and I'd suggest that the ikon line can be instrumental in keeping major holdings that are on the outskirts of your empire. At the least it might allow you to tax the people harder or free up some garrison troops, both of which are valuable as the game progresses.

As for the religious amplification on a faction-wide scale, I'd suggest this could be a good idea, but is something I'd expect to see coming from the Theologians' Guilds, as opposed to any given building that a faction might have. It's a little overpowering to be handing it to only one or two factions.

I find the Ikonic buildings very useful, because Russia is stuck surrounded by territories that are very pagan, and then once you finally get settled down, you find all kinds of priests and imams prowling all over your turf, causing all kinds of problems. An ikoner's guild plus an abbey or cathedral is usually enough to maintain a high level of Orthodox Christianity in your settlements. Without it, I think your religious problems would be terrible.

I find them useful in the mid to late game. Currently playing the Byzantines and as I'm moving into Italy there are some well developed cities that I don't want to sack or exterminate. I immediately build the orthodox church, upgrade it once and then the Ikonic thing. It's a help as if you're bordering a non-orthodox nation you get a lot of priests/imans milling around. Realistically I bet it would be simpler just to pump out 10 priests and save over 1/2 the cash, but meh, might as well use the thing.

Thanks for the replies guys. As always the Foz (the Fonz's younger bro?) makes sense.

Many a time in my current game I started to build an Ikoner's in Constantinople for "flavor" purposes. But then, I thought, aren't there more crucial places I could spend that 4800? The building's piddly effects do not justify its lofty price tag, especially compared to the other Byz special sanitation structures. Baths: 800F for a large bump to public health, and a direct increase in pop. growth. Aqueduct: 1600F for a doubling of that effect. Wow!

Then look at the Portugese/Spanish Plaza del Toro. 4800F for a 5% public happiness bump and the ability to create an already widely available unit. I also understand some other faction specific buildings cost small fortunes for relatively little benefit. It's a shame to have to pay such exorbitant prices just for flavor.

The Plaza is well worth it. It allows your cities to produce useful jinete support units while your castles tackle the heavier units (knights, alumghivars, crossbowmen, etc.). It makes raising armies faster.

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Originally Posted by Snipafist

The Plaza is well worth it. It allows your cities to produce useful jinete support units while your castles tackle the heavier units (knights, alumghivars, crossbowmen, etc.). It makes raising armies faster.

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Bah. By the time I have money to throw away on Plaza del Toro, my cities will be more rightly concerned with producing pikemen and musketeers.

Must say that as Russia, I have never yet seen fit to build that Ikon shop. I'll usually make a 2nd level church and a priest or two and before you know it the area will be a high percent orthodox.

When I played Spain I did make a fair amount of Plaza Del Toro's, because a) it's nice to have the ability to raise Jinettes to fight rebels; b) as Spain I was swimming in cash. As Russia, not so much.

I rarelly build them, i never have any problems with religion because which ever faction/reliogion sends its priests to my regions i counter send my priest to theirs in the end they pull their priests back to fix their religion problems heh

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Originally Posted by Basileus

I rarelly build them, i never have any problems with religion because which ever faction/reliogion sends its priests to my regions i counter send my priest to theirs in the end they pull their priests back to fix their religion problems heh

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Ah, what the heck, I just assasinate Imams/catholic priests!

I do send my priests to their regions just to step on their nerves

I find them very helpful. They allow me to keep only one priest in my own territory (For Heretic hunting purposes) and never have to use priests to counter enemy priests, because there's no way you can overcome a maxed out orthodox huge cathedral + ikoner building without 20 priests, so I never have to worry about it.