Avoiding vices

I've played mtw a lot a year ago, got burnt out on it, now I'm back... found that I still remember most of the keyboard shortcuts ok and how to use spears/swords/cav effectively (hardwired in my brain!), but I've forgot many of the little tricks that were important on the strategic map play...

What I wanted was a quick reminder: how often do I have to shuffle the garrisoned troops and/or the generals I've given provincial titles to, in order for them to not acquire vices? Once every ten years if my memory serves me?

And is it enough to simply pick them up (out of the fort) and then simply put them back inside, or do I actually have to move them into another province? I think that I remember sending them around into one of the bordering provinces, then back on the next turn.

I've just started playing that samurai mod for mtw (great mod!), and I'd like to avoid any of my guys getting vices... could somebody refresh my memory on this a bit, thanks in advance guys!

I didn't know that obtaining vices was tied to the movement of the respective units in MTW too. for sure it's the case with RTW, but this is an interesting insight :book:

since MTW tends to have so many different faces (just check the barques vs. caravels thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=78202) I can only speak for what I found to be unseful. for example, a good way to avoid vices on governors is to keep taxes on "high" (i.e. lower than very high) most of the times. also, the kind and frequency of vices seems to be affected by your general standing. if you are the mightiest faction or otherwise exceedingly rich your governors will soon start getting those "exclusive trader"-like vices. they're not nice, especially as they decrease further (in my games most of them disappear on reload, though....).

in general the best way I found to avoid vices is to let those guys fight often, preferably as the general. this is not always viable with governors but keeps them peppered. and finally .....build new units to maintain a constant flow of new, potentially capable governors since in my expreience the old ones *will* start detoriating one day. not necessarily and not all of them, but it's never wrong to shuffle the gentry around which gets lazy from sitting on its a**

The moving generals around thing was always too much trouble for me to bother with. The biggest culprit in gaining vices in MTW is your suprlus cash though I think. Having over like 20k(or maybe its 30-40 or higher) in the bank earned your guys alot of corruption vices. Aside from that having high influence/marrying other factions princesses can help with your heirs starting without bad vices. Also if you're having alot of bad vices pop out of nowhere the culprit might also be enemy spies uncovering "hidden" vices on your generals.

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Originally Posted by Nikpalj

What I wanted was a quick reminder: how often do I have to shuffle the garrisoned troops and/or the generals I've given provincial titles to, in order for them to not acquire vices? Once every ten years if my memory serves me?

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That's about right, although I can't say with certainty that that's the exact interval. I sometimes move my governors around as little as every 5 years, although I concede it's probably unnecessary to do so quite *that* often.

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Originally Posted by Nikpalj

And is it enough to simply pick them up (out of the fort) and then simply put them back inside, or do I actually have to move them into another province? I think that I remember sending them around into one of the bordering provinces, then back on the next turn.

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You need to actually move them to another province for at least one turn. It's getting the governors away from home and into the fresh air that helps keep the sloth, greed, and gluttony at bay. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Dues ret.

I didn't know that obtaining vices was tied to the movement of the respective units in MTW too. for sure it's the case with RTW, but this is an interesting insight :book:

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Yeah, moving your governors around in MTW does help prevent them from getting the various unfavorable traits in the later game. (A word to the wise, by the way: This method is *not* foolproof, although it helps. Your governors are still likely to pick up vices, just not as often.)

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Originally Posted by Martok

You need to actually move them to another province for at least one turn. It's getting the governors away from home and into the fresh air that helps keep the sloth, greed, and gluttony at bay. ~;)

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It also helps to avoid Very High taxes, if you wish to prevent the worst of the trade/farm income damaging vices.

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Originally Posted by Geezer57

It also helps to avoid Very High taxes, if you wish to prevent the worst of the trade/farm income damaging vices.

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Quite right, Geezer. Good of you to pick up my slack (since I forgot to mention it myself). :bow:

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Originally Posted by ChaosLord

The biggest culprit in gaining vices in MTW is your suprlus cash though I think

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Originally Posted by Geezer57

It also helps to avoid Very High taxes, if you wish to prevent the worst of the trade/farm income damaging vices.

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Originally Posted by Martok

Quite right, Geezer. Good of you to pick up my slack (since I forgot to mention it myself). :bow:

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If you guys read my first reply properly I'm sure you'll extract even more potentially useful stuff. I'm playing offended ~:mecry: no one reads my posts.

GAH! So you did, Deus ret. My apologies. :shame:

The question should be, does it really matter? I notice that my governors pick up nasty, revenue reducing vices when revenue no longer matters. Some may play where you don't build every money making improvement like I do but I've found that vices aren't a problem.

Maybe I've just played the game too much.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

If you guys read my first reply properly I'm sure you'll extract even more potentially useful stuff. I'm playing offended ~:mecry: no one reads my posts.

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My bad - should I come over to eat worms out of your garden? :shame:

Regarding vices, I've discovered that one of the "received wisdoms" about them is wrong, namely that "vices only attach to the general heading a stack". I've seen it happen more than enough times now to convince me that units buried in a stack under a more powerful general DO pick up new VnVs and also have exisiting ones develop further. What's more, units in the retraining queue can also pick them up, and not just on the year they are spat out again with their new weapons/armour/men, etc etc. I must admit I was kind of shocked, but it really does happen :inquisitive: (If you click on the VnV parchment and the unit is in for retraining it will take you to "limbo", ie the top left corner of the map, same as when it's a unit just back from ransoming.)

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Regarding vices, I've discovered that one of the "received wisdoms" about them is wrong, namely that "vices only attach to the general heading a stack". I've seen it happen more than enough times now to convince me that units buried in a stack under a more powerful general DO pick up new VnVs and also have exisiting ones develop further. What's more, units in the retraining queue can also pick them up, and not just on the year they are spat out again with their new weapons/armour/men, etc etc. I must admit I was kind of shocked, but it really does happen :inquisitive: (If you click on the VnV parchment and the unit is in for retraining it will take you to "limbo", ie the top left corner of the map, same as when it's a unit just back from ransoming.)

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You've got that right, but in my experience there are still certain vices that only the stack leader will get. There are also other's that a governor or governors will get regardless of whether they lead a stack or not.

Hey guys.

I'm still wondering about all those vice/virtues stuff. I consider it to be quite random, like à % to get them, this % being modifed by circumstances?

Do you know if there is a thread here in the org, or a source somewhere with something like the chances to get each vice or virtue?

The "moving the giys around" part is cvery interesting, I'll try that!

I'm not sure about the moving about thing, but come to think of it, it does make perfect sense. High and Very High taxation definitely does bring on more of the greed, glutton and corruption related vices. An overlarge treasury has a similar effect. There are also alot of corruption vices that seem to appear once you get above 60% of the map conquered.

Piety related vices don't seem to be triggered by anything. They seem to be either random or brought on by attempted inquistitions.

As you say, having a governor bleeding is people dry with taxation whall bring a "counterreaction" of the peasants hiding their ressources... That's what actually happened in the dark ages (at least in France). I think that I'll take the time to make a few "scientifically designed" tests, I'll report when I find out!

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Or when I get dazzled by the testing and resume chopping heads! :dizzy2: