Enabling War Wagons and Wagon Walls
Hello.
Last days I moded game, and tried to create better viewable cod. And I found in export_descr_units.txt something interesting.
CA had intentions to include war wagons and walls in MII TW, but for some unknown reason they never finish them, which I will show. :no:
INVESTIGATION – PART ONE
Open export_descr_units.txt, hit Ctrl+F, and type wagon.
You’ll get this:
Code:
type CE Wagon Fort
dictionary CE_Wagon_Fort ; Wagon Fort
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Heavy
accent East_European
banner faction main_missile
banner holy crusade
soldier CE_Wagon_Fort, 48, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, no_custom, wagon_fort, crossbow
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 16, 3, steel_crossbow_bolt, 160, 30, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr ap
stat_sec 13, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 8, 0, leather
;stat_armour_ex 4, 5, 0, 0, 8, 0, 0, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 1, -2, 3, 2
stat_mental 9, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 18
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1250, 150, 90, 70, 1250, 4, 310
armour_ug_levels 1, 2
armour_ug_models CE_Wagon_Fort, CE_Wagon_Fort_ug1
ownership poland, hungary, slave
;unit_info 13, 16, 12
Interesting, really. This unit can’t be found neither in custom battle, and campaign. What is really interesting are attributes of unit:
Code:
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw, no_custom, wagon_fort, crossbow
Delete no_custom, and unit will become available in custom battles.
In menu:
https://img249.imageshack.us/img249/...gonivt2.th.jpg
https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/...gonibq4.th.jpg
In battle:
https://img297.imageshack.us/img297/...agonsr1.th.jpg
https://img123.imageshack.us/img123/...goniyi8.th.jpg
But, where are the war wagons?! :beam: Well, CA didn’t put them for unit for unknown reason(s).
What bother me is wagon_fort attribute.
More bad news. There is unit for Russia Gulay Gorod which is the same unit like Wagon Fort. Delete no_custom, and you’ll see them:
https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...orodju9.th.jpg
Maybe somebody remember IGN preview of Russia: http://pc.ign.com/articles/731/731089p3.html Gulay Gorod is described in preview, but wasn’t finished, which probably means that IGN didn’t see game, and just wrote what CA/SEGA provided. Who cares for that any more, anyway ;)?
INVESTIGATION – PART TWO
Go in data\ui\units.
Example: enter in Denmark folder. You can see #ne_wagonwall.tga and, #ne_warwagon.tga. Well, most European factions have ui for war wagons and wagon walls. This is evidence that CA had intentions to include them, but they didn’t.
But, why they didn’t?
Further investigation showed that there are actually models for them. Open siege_engines folder. There are fortification_wagonwall.mesh and fortification_warwagon.mesh files!
If you quick compare them with other siege engines, you see that two files missing: .modelreferencepoints and .modeltraversablenetwork. Half finished product…
In textures subfolder I found:
fortification_wagonwall.texture
fortification_wagonwall_bump.texture
war_wagon.texture
war_wagon_bump.texture
And you can open them. Both textures are almost the same.
https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...turacd1.th.jpg
And that’s it. There are no more models and animations for them.
Good news
Animations for siege engines are in .cas, so, animations for war wagons and walls can be created.
Bad news
We can’t work with .mesh files. And that mean: collision_models, destroyed, lods, and unitmodelsrefpoints can’t be done.
IN REALITY
I played a bit with files. I managed to “create” appearance of war wagons and walls.
Open descr_engine.txt. I used great standart of Milan and Venice for creating wagons and walls.
Code:
type great_standart_milan
culture all
class holy_cart
pathfinding_data none
reference_points siege_engines/great_bell_tower_standard_milan.modelReferencePoints
area_effect ae_holy_inspiration
engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton Great_bell_tower_standard
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/Great_Bell_Tower_standard.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/belltower_collide.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/great_bell_tower_standard_milan.mesh, 40.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/great_bell_tower_standard_milan.mesh, 80.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/great_bell_tower_standard_milan.mesh, max
engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton Great_bell_dying
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/belltower_destruct.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/belltower_collide.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/greatbell_milan_destruction.mesh, max
engine_model_group dead
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/belltower_collide.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/greatbell_milan_destroyed.mesh, max
engine_shadow none
engine_radius 3
engine_visual_radius 3
engine_length 5
engine_width 3.2
engine_height 11
engine_mass 6
engine_dock_dist 1.5
engine_mob_dist 4
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 0.5
fire_effect engine_fire_medium_set
obstacle_shape rectangle
obstacle_x_radius 1.6
obstacle_y_radius 2.5
engine_formation 8, 7
engine_spo physical_obstacle
engine_health 10
Easier method – change in engine_mesh lines, and put the following (I put it for Venice):
Code:
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, 40.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, 80.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, max
And for Milan:
Code:
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_wagonwall.mesh, 40.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_wagonwall.mesh, 80.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_wagonwall.mesh, max
A bit harder ;) – it should be like this:
Code:
type standart_venice
culture all
class holy_cart
pathfinding_data none
reference_points siege_engines/great_bell_tower_standard_milan.modelReferencePoints
engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton Great_bell_tower_standard
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/Great_Bell_Tower_standard.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/catapult_collision.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, 40.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, 80.0
engine_mesh siege_engines/fortification_warwagon.mesh, max
engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton Great_bell_dying
engine_bone_map siege_engines/BoneMaps/belltower_destruct.xml
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/belltower_collide.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/greatbell_venice_destruction.mesh, max
engine_model_group dead
engine_collision siege_engines/collision_models/belltower_collide.CAS
engine_mesh siege_engines/destroyed/greatbell_venice_destroyed.mesh, max
engine_shadow none
engine_radius 3 ;7.0
engine_visual_radius 7.0
engine_length 5
engine_width 3.2
engine_height 11
engine_mass 6
engine_dock_dist 1.5
engine_mob_dist 4
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 0.5
fire_effect engine_fire_medium_set
obstacle_shape rectangle
obstacle_x_radius 1.6
obstacle_y_radius 2.5
engine_formation 8, 7
engine_spo physical_obstacle
engine_health 10
I changed type, erased area effect, and, of course, engine mesh is changed. I really don’t know what every parameter mean.
If you did everything well, you’ll see them in game.
War wagons:
https://img407.imageshack.us/img407/...gonizq7.th.jpg
War walls:
https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/...dovilt4.th.jpg
Some Q&A about wagons and walls:
Q: Can they move, or they are stationary?
A: Yes, they can move, and you unit can abandon them, and again use them, just like other siege engines. However, because there is no animation for them, they are static when they are moved, and soldiers push invisible wall.
Q: Can they be destroyed?
A: Of course, I did it with artillery, but destroyed model is from greatbell_venice_destroyed.mesh, or other (depends from what you put). I already wrote that there is no mesh for it.
Q: How AI handle in attacking wagons and walls?
A: I created ¾ circles, and AI attacked through gaps, but only several soldiers, so your units easily massacre them. This is especially case for cavalry (I idealize a bit :)). Expect bugs like this one:
https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/...govitl6.th.jpg
Q: Does AI use wagons/walls in attack?
A: Yes, they push them, which is funny :). After they closed enough, AI release units from pushing, and attack.
Q: Can I put my unit in wagon?
A: No, you can’t. Wagon, like wall, is for defending (slowing down enemy charge).
END OF BEGINNING
If we get .mesh converter war wagons and walls can be finished easy.
I really don’t know how to attach wagons and walls to other units, except for Carroccio Standard for Venice and Milan.
When I add this line in EDU:
Code:
engine great_standart_venice
To CE Wagon Fort unit, game crash is start. Then I change category of unit from infantry into siege, and add standard as attribute, and nothing. Game start, but there is no wagon. When wagon fort unit (crossbowmen) starts to fight, game crash. I think that is impossible to add wagons/walls to any unit which has two weapons, because bugs occur. I just guess, but maybe CA had the same problem, and they abandon idea of including them because of it.
Carroccio Standard can be other to any other faction. Read here about it: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74945 Good news is there are ui for both wagons and walls, you just need texture.
And how to eliminate armored spearmen as soldiers? I don’t know. Maybe via .modeldb, but I didn’t try. If somebody solves it, please post it.
Happy moding. :balloon2:
Re: Enabling War Wagons and Wagon Walls
Re: Enabling War Wagons and Wagon Walls
Many thank-you's!
If somehow this can be figured out "end of the beginning" indeed, it would revolutionize the eastern half of the campaign map, as these units are very typical in East-Central and West-Eastern Europe...
Re: Enabling... ram combo?
Followup: I've just read the "how to add a unit" tutorial, and have NOT yet tried it, so this is completely noob-ish...
But we have rams, and they work, right? If they're being pushed anyway, can the attributes be combined with a ram reskinned to cart/wall specs? That would get some of the sizes closer (been to Tabor? Their best reconstructions suggest that these suckers were BIG once the first fights against the Iron Lords and Vltava squires were over).
Re: Enabling... ram combo?
nice bohemian wagon fort :P
Re: Enabling War Wagons and Wagon Walls
Zdravo DukeofSerbia, kako si? I was trying to do a similar thing for Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion. In some of the battles (especially against the hun hordes) I'm always outnumbered at least 1:10. Normally I'm quite good at maneuvering my army and fighting well but the problem is that the huns bring such huge armies that they fill almost the entire battlefield so there is no space to evade. So, my idea was to bring something to the battlefield that I could use as a physical obstacle to their advance since I have superior artillery and other ranged weapons that can be used to destroy most of their army from a distance - I just need to restrict their ability to quickly charge from all directions and massacre me:)
So, in barbarian invasion I found the descr_engines file and modified the export_descr_unit file. for example, for some of the siege weapons, say onagers, I type a new engine name, for example siege tower or battering ram and it works - my men indeed have it during the battle. The problem is that they don't have the same functionality as during siege battles. I can just use them as blockades but my soldiers cannot go in the siege tower and shoot at the enemy as they do during siege battles. Do you know any solution for this? Thanks.
