MP Losing Appeal

I just posted the in the Totalwar.com (RANTS & RAVES :) )the post below.
You may agree with it or not but I'd like to know what you (the only community that seems alive) think about it.

"I'm always a supporter of the TW saga, but recently the MP lobby is losing members day after day. Now at the most crowdy hour (9pm - 11pm GMT) it is hard to see more 50-75 guys playing. Not many of them are "old" players, many are new players that do not pops up frequently again.
Reasons? severe bugs, many of us waiting for the new patch, not reliable lobby games, etc...
The italian community, the one that I know the most, is faded away since the first (full of hopes) days.
So it is becoming increasingly difficult to play a good game.
Hope that CA will dedicate its attention to the MP part of the game. It is the future of gaming (and maybe we will get a MP campaign in the future)
Good Work"

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...picID=70.topic

Bugs and balance will always affect MP more than SP, little things that can be overlooked in SP campaign (since unit upgrades mean seldomly fighting 'equal' battles) are a major problem for MP.
I say this with regards competitive games where both sides want an equal chance of success. However, if this competitiveness is ignored and the game is approached from a 'fun' angle (and fun does not mean you do not try to win) and the battle is enjoyed as just that, a good battle regardless of who is victorious; the game is very enjoyable.
That being said, MPers are a competitive bunch on the whole and maybe this is the reason so many 'old' players left the community. Time will tell if the next patch manages to bring some back.
Speaking for myself, I never got that involved with competitive battles, even back in Shogun days I always hosted and attacked hard maps where defenders had the advantage (these are still some of the best battles I've had) and the other players had a great time too. There again I took part in one CWB battle and that did not compare at all, in fact I can say that it was boring (at least it was for me)
I'm enjoying M2TW but my approach to the game may not suit others. MP has never attracted a huge following with this series, it's a shame

.......Orda

Original Shogun was drawing over 100 players at peak times from Oct 2000 until June 2001 when the MI expansion was released which changed the original Shogun for the worse and participation dropped to about 40 at peak. M2TW probably sold 10 times or more as many copied as original STW, so M2TW having less online participation than original STW is revealing.

I play about 1-2 hours of MP M2TW a week now. When RTW came out i player about 10-15 a week. Sometimes more. M2TW is ruiing the MP build up simply because CA completly ignores our part of the game, they mainly fix bugs in SP and balence a little. Im heading back to BI/RTW

Main problem is that no TW game I know is designed as a MP game. TW is designed as a SP game build around the campaign map, next to that you can also do large scale battles.
However it's almost impossible to make a MP campaign as it just takes too much time to play, you can do something like a Pitboss as you have for Civ4 the problem however is that for battles you need to be online at the same times, which can be difficult. So MP campaigns with fighting your battles is no go. MP campaigns without fighting the battles could be made, but TW is about those battles.

So for MP we only have custom battles really, yeah they can be fun, however as said before everything need to be bug free. Balance is somewhat important, but compared to RTW with its Roman Factions, MTW2 is uber balanced, so that can't be the problem.
I think Orda is right ... in MP I play fun games, I bring some absurd army (like that Stakebox, or an Aztec Rush army) and have fun.

What we've seen (heard) of the next patch it should balance MP completely (or unbalance it even more, but lets hope it makes sure those 2handed work again), patches bring bugs, but most of the time SP campaign bugs, so they should work for MP.

Imo the only thing that MP is lacking is a nice lobby, I would love some private chat window so I only see what the people I'm privately chatting with say. I would love some more lobbies, as in RTW.

For myself, the Mp aspect has lost it's luster. I think it's due to the fact I have played online since STW and really nothing has changed. I rarely play the SP campaign to it's end. Essentially, we are playing the same game over and over with better eye candy.

I know a lot of people at my work who bought MTW2, who never venture online, either because they are afraid of looking stupid and losing quickly, or they are not good at maneuvering their army against the comp, let alone another player.
For myself I wish the MP combat system was even more involved, I thought that CA needed to add another layer of complexity for good MP's after they become sufficient online.

Maybe some special moves it you combine certain types of troops together, with the special moved turned on.

Controlling your partners troops in 2v2/3v3/4v4.

It's got to be hard for the developers, making the interface easy, but giving depth to the game for experienced players.

Later

Cromwell

Imo, lag for team games and connection problems are themself killing this game. Gameplay is decent, better than Rome/BI, but you can't expect people to be interested in game, if all they can play is 1v1.

Ps. I owe you 5$ Machiavelli. :)

People always say they have lag, I never have that. Why? Well turn all graphics and sounds down to lowest, that works.

Next to that I have a 100 mb connection but still, turning down graphics and sounds does a wonderfull job

I agree with Puzz. MP has been dying since Shogun Total War. Creative Assmebly has never tried to save it, they just keep it on the barest minimum of life support so they can still put "multiplayer" on their packaging because they know it sells a few copies.

:shame:

Personally I did my grieving a long time ago, and went through the classic stages of denial, rage, grief, and finally acceptance. Sorry to break it to you like this.... but I think you should know. CA doesn't care about MP; never has, never will. This is a decision that was made at the very top of the company and I've heard rumors some of the development team even quit or lost their jobs over it. Is it true? I don't know, but MP is sure hurting.... you decide.

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Originally Posted by Dionysus9

:shame:
Personally I did my grieving a long time ago, and went through the classic stages of denial, rage, grief, and finally acceptance. Sorry to break it to you like this.... but I think you should know. CA doesn't care about MP; never has, never will. This is a decision that was made at the very top of the company and I've heard rumors some of the development team even quit or lost their jobs over it. Is it true? I don't know, but MP is sure hurting.... you decide.

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Amen to that Mate. I don't like talking about how MP has become,but I just goten over it.

Only thing I am going to say is, MP is hurting bad. If it wasn't, I would not be playing BF2 more then I do TW, and I would be playing TW more then Twice a week (Fridays and Sundays)

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

Bugs and balance will always affect MP more than SP, little things that can be overlooked in SP campaign (since unit upgrades mean seldomly fighting 'equal' battles) are a major problem for MP.
I say this with regards competitive games where both sides want an equal chance of success. However, if this competitiveness is ignored and the game is approached from a 'fun' angle (and fun does not mean you do not try to win) and the battle is enjoyed as just that, a good battle regardless of who is victorious; the game is very enjoyable.
That being said, MPers are a competitive bunch on the whole and maybe this is the reason so many 'old' players left the community. Time will tell if the next patch manages to bring some back.
Speaking for myself, I never got that involved with competitive battles, even back in Shogun days I always hosted and attacked hard maps where defenders had the advantage (these are still some of the best battles I've had) and the other players had a great time too. There again I took part in one CWB battle and that did not compare at all, in fact I can say that it was boring (at least it was for me)
I'm enjoying M2TW but my approach to the game may not suit others. MP has never attracted a huge following with this series, it's a shame

.......Orda

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TWMP has always been the 'mongoloid half-brother kept in the attic' of the TW games. They are ashamed of it but neither can they kill it, so they provide a place for it (but really they wouldnt be sad if the MP community just went away or starved to death). :inquisitive:

any fun had by the MP community has been due to the community and nothing to do with the game makers efforts, if anything they have continually (deliberately or not) wrecked MP.

problems

LAG and all the other issues of balance etc

if you decrease the lag or are playing to win at all, then you'll have the graphics turned down (lag) and you'll be zoomed out (tactics) so basically the benefits of the 'eye candy' have been null and void for MP. Thus for the Mpers the game has become drastically worse over the last two builds.

As Orda says - the community needs to find ways to make playing the game fun in spite of the problems inherent and the absence of support - or give up. :thumbsdown:

maybe for individual for fun players the atmosphere is a little cold. maybe more veteran players should play more with these people to get them interested in the game more.

Vikings was built for multiplayer. It will always be the best.:smash:

There are so many ways of playing this game online to have good fun without hoping for each and every faction to be perfectly balanced (it became clear when MTW came along that this sort of balance was gone).
I had a great time playing faction v faction simulated battles with MTW, call it role playing or whatever. In a 3v3 situation this type of battle provides a lot of fun and enjoyment, just think of some historical clashes. Hungary v Turks, England v France, Mongols v Russia or Poland or Hungary, Spain v Moors, there are so many. When the game is approached in this way it is not so intense and these issues like finding the very best units or factions or counter factions simply don't matter anymore. New/different tactics can be used, maybe some that you'd never attempt in a competitive setting.
One addition to MP that I would like to see is separate lobbies so things like the above would be easier to arrange. Oh, and a lot more maps. The map choices since RTW have been very poor and limited

.......Orda

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

Original Shogun was drawing over 100 players at peak times from Oct 2000 until June 2001 when the MI expansion was released which changed the original Shogun for the worse and participation dropped to about 40 at peak. M2TW probably sold 10 times or more as many copied as original STW, so M2TW having less online participation than original STW is revealing.

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Added to the fact that back then, internet wasn't as "spread" as now.

:daisy:

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Originally Posted by -Silent-Someguy

Who cares what u think?

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The people who haven't purchased M2TW, and who now won't.

If people won't purchase a game because of a few posts on the forums then i feel sorry for them. Me personally i love mtw2 mp and see plenty of people on all the time. I have over 4k seperate pids picked up, so theres plenty of players.

I was gonna do a long post, but Orda Khan said it all for me :-)

All i can add myself, is that the focus should be on all players, not just clanbods. So many times i have entered the forum to see 6 clan only games with passwords, but none for others. if you want more players then you have to be open to new players.
I am used to it as ive been playing for a while, but i can see it as being offputting for those new to the game.

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Originally Posted by 7Bear7Bottom

Vikings was built for multiplayer. It will always be the best.:smash:

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YEAH this evening we start at 20:00 GMT be there!! MTW VI rulez. All later games in MP are :wall:

yeah i kinda stopped playing mp, in no small part due to gamespy...but it, like rome, hasnt lived up to my expectations

maybe its like dudes who think anything after the beetles or rolling stones is junk music...not that i agree with that, but just using it as an example of my feelings towards anything after mtw1 :inquisitive:

just cant get into it anymore, and i cant really understand why. it just feels like something was lost in translation when they redid the engine

i can still fire up a campaign of mtw2 and enjoy myself (although every minute i am lamenting the fact there is no glorious achievments) but there just seems to be alot better mp games out there to waste time playing mtw2 mp

maybe my romantic attachment to mtw1 prevents me from enjoying anything that isnt mtw1 ~:confused:

We had been looking forward and waited a long time for M2TW, but then we had to see, that we cannot get as like fun in MP as we had expected.

Many of these who like the TW series make similar postings to this question.

I think there are a lot of new players who are testing the mp and have fun to see the lots of nice details. But these are not the players who will play this for a long time.

There are also a lot of old clans coming back to M2Tw but in my opinion most of the TW-series-players miss some important things.

So Bottom said it in one statement: M2TW is not made for MP.

I like battles with as much reality simulation as possible, where the choice of armies, deployment and tactics and teamplay decides if win or loose.

At this point I have to make "marketing" again: We play MTW/VI instead of M2TW, cause this is real fun and all experienced players know what makes the difference.

So have a look, make a couple of battles in VI and compare. You will find out what causes more fun and affords Your skill.

We re starting in 2 hours today. Hope to see You in VI.

Strength and Honour

lol so your saying mtw2 takes no skill to play? Man you lot are funny. Your just a bunch of grass is always greener types.

basicallly a cav army will pretty much ruin just about any other army in the game. peasants that have 3 defence skill with faster animations than most units in the game. two handed units that get owned by any unit in the game. sounds pretty lame to me.

mtw2 definetly doesnt take the kinda skill to play as you would have to have in shogun, viking invasion or rome. when all you have to do is use a cav spam army.

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

basicallly a cav army will pretty much ruin just about any other army in the game. peasants that have 3 defence skill with faster animations than most units in the game. two handed units that get owned by any unit in the game. sounds pretty lame to me.

mtw2 definetly doesnt take the kinda skill to play as you would have to have in shogun, viking invasion or rome. when all you have to do is use a cav spam army.

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I have a near 50/50 statistical victories over cav spam armies, where I for myself using a mixed combination, so I can´t agree with you that they are almost invincible. But pure HA armies are really hard to beat (depends on what kind of map of course...). But I do agree with you that there are some serious bugs, specially 2H and shield. Those will hopefully be fixed in the next patch release. /C.

Let's not get too carried away with how good MTW/VI was because my memories of that game are not so fond. All I remember is the sword/cav dominance that ruined the game totally. IMO, MTW 1.0 was far superior in gameplay but people did not like spears beating swords (100 spears v 60 swords) that sounds about right to me since the swords are only just over half the size and would still win from the flank

......Orda

hmmm cav didnt dominate really till after the lancer patch, which oddly enough is when i stopped playing mtw1 :book:

i didnt really get into the whole sword vs spear thing, i thought it was overblown, i never expected my infantry to win any fights, spears did fine for me when used for what they were supposed to, beating cav and standing there in front of the enemy lines like a big speed bump, kill rates were so low in that game it didnt matter what your inf was

it was just there to make a line and allow you to maneuver your other troops

i always used those saracen spears and the other ones, cant remember the names, was a smaller unit size and they were fast

even if it was as bad as you say, spearmen were usually scrubs anyway historically, untill the pike craze

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Originally Posted by |Heerbann|_Luculus

Many of these who like the TW series make similar postings to this question.

I think there are a lot of new players who are testing the mp and have fun to see the lots of nice details. But these are not the players who will play this for a long time.

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Yes, and? Are you saying that players that have *only* been playing since around Rome have an opinion that is not as credible as someone whose been playing since mtw?

TBH I think theres alot of people here who played stw, not all of them, who for some reason can't get over themselves and think their opinion superior. Despite the fact newer players from RTW could at least give them a run for their money if not take them to the cleaners and back. I mean I only consider myself just abit better than average, and I've beaten quite a few guys from older clans.

So please...can we just stop saying that rome player's opinions mean squat. M2 hasn't even had a freakin major patch yet, even the great likes of mtw and stw that all you vets once graced with your presence had its problems on 1.1, I'm sure.

Way off topic, but meh.

Well "spoken" Monarch, and both STW and MTW had problems before the patches. I remember for example the GUI of STW that was indeed awkward before CA solved it with its first patch release, and I´m pretty sure M2TW will be the best game in the TW series once all the problems are solved. /C.

not without the cav charge tuned down and the push through bug fixed.

even at hastings a densely packed cluster of men. many not even having spears defeated repeated charges by norman knights several times and inflicted good casualties. a main line infantry force of spearmen or better should be able to stand up better to a cav charge.

if this isnt fixed on 1.2 it will not be good.