River Crossings

One of the things I'd like some opions on is (when on the offensive).
What troops do you send first. If the defense has a well balanced army.
I always thought the Naginata would be the best since they could take the most arrow fire, and their pole arms are good happy medium for say calvery, spearmen.
Even when I send high honor and well advanced weapons and armor.
They still don't seem to hold the line long enough for my missle fire to soften up the defense. I still take a lot of losses using them, and they run with their tails between their legs
If I use Monks they usually can't take the calvery and arrow fire.
I know the Kensai are great because they can take a beating, and with
a single man troop the enemy usually fires on their own troops.
But of course they don't appear until later on in the game.

I hate going up against a well fortified river province. In the wrong conditions you're in for a blood bath.

I'm pretty new at this but here's my take:

Send a spy in first to see what kind of army you're attacking.

-If it's heavily archer biased attack on a rainy spring day with purely well armoured foot soldiers (no archers) and a couple of horse units to discourage a rally if you happen to break through.

-If it's primarily foot soldiers load up on archers in the first stack and as they run out of arrows withdraw them and have monks or no-dachi waiting in the wings to tear into the weakend enemy units.

-If it's horses you're golden, horses and bridges don't mix, load up on Yari and they'll make short work of things.

-If it's a well balanced force with generous archer/musket backup be prepared for a long ugly attempt. When I lose a game it's because a bridge province sapped my resources and time enough to allow somebody else to get big.

I really love this game, I bought MTW and tried to like it but I keep coming back to Shogun.

Matt
Looking forward to the expert advice to make my bridge crossings easier.

I would always keep two units of kamikaze yari cavalry or yumi cavalry in my river assault armies. You send them across at top speed and send them in opposite directions at a right angle from the bridge. The enemy breaks formation, chases after them, and then you move in with the rest of your army while they're unprepared and marching after your cavalry.

For me it depends on the land of the defending side. If its flat on my side and rough on theres i will send a small HC group in then right when they hit call retreat. Some times you can get their cavalry to chase them. them you have to have low angle ranged units(aka muskets... etc) and when your cav are clear of the bridge have some Yari Cavalry and some Nanginata Cavalry come in while the LA range units fire up the enemy cav as they cross and right when they are about half way across the bridge i pull my muskets back while i have naginata and yari come in from the sides while(if i can) i have rallyed my HC to come from the front and attack like that. If you lucky you will get rid of most of their cavalry units. Then if they still have some infantry on the other side move in some YC to distract their archers and move a musket group(2-3 full squads) and start weakening their infantry then slowly move the main stay of your army in( Yari Samurai, Kensai, monks,... etc) and pull ur muskets back when your infantry reach them(to prevent FF) and have your infantry work over the enemy infantry while your yari finally stop pecker wooding around and finally come in for the kill on their archers.

If its flat on the enemy side and rough(preferably very high ground) and set some archers and LA ranged units on the hill side. then follow the same strategy up top but when your units are on the bridge u should send in fodder infantry first and have them hold on the bridge while you work them over with Range.

I hope this helps you all out i know it was fun playing the game to find these strategies.

If the enemy is defending divide them .. use 10 shinobi ... end turn .. again .. see the rebels fight for u :)) ...

Back to topic ... if u want to win whit fewer loses use some cannon fodder - yari ashigaru - in loose formation stop on the bridge .. soon the enemy will counter attack as samurai feal they can kill the ashigaru whit ease .. this is true .. but if you did bring 4-6 archer units whit u u win, dont hesitate to fire at the enemy, you will only loose some 2-4 ashi units un this way, why your enemy will loose much more specially if he has warrior monks and no-dachi as there armor is low ... and dont send naginata ... they are slow and the samurai`s bow is not the bow you know from Medieval ...

this may sound as cheap tactic but it works ... ashi hold formation hold positoin in loose formation when white flag appears - they are weawering - send in the next unit .. - dont forget to keep the general close to them near the river as they are unreliable under great pressure -

hope this help ... other units yari samurai sohei - warrior monk- no-dachi, some cav ... ore anny other combination ...
u can bring in max 16 units .. 6 archers 4 ashigaru, the rest is up to u ...

ps .. de Ai helps a lot as he will receive friendly fire as well ... and it is more difficult to doge an arrow that is coming from behind ..

Heh. I posted this at the .com in September of 2003, the year I discovered all of this online TW stuff. Seeing this post and remembering my post of old, I went looking for it and actually found it. It has such a "newbie" ring to it ... got me chuckling. Rather than post a link to the entire .com thread, I copied and pasted my response. For what it's worth:

Attacking Bridge Provinces with fewer Casualties

Ah ... this is so fun. 6-8 archers, 6-8 spear, no more than 2 of the spear ashi. Attacker? nothing else necessary against 960 or less defenders - no matter what they are. No naginata required, though they help a little in soaking up arrow fire if you've got 'em. Use them first, but remember they're slower that spear, and quite a bit slower than ashi.

March archers to river's edge. Arrange in two-row deep formations, one unit directly behind the other, on each side of the bridge if terrain allows. First two units on each side are set to fire at will. Others behind them set to hold fire until ordered.

Spearmen are arranged in long columns, only 4 wide, close formation, and set to hold formation. Arrange these behind the archers. Yes, you will lose some spearmen (so before you attack the province, have replacements ready in an adjacent province).

Take one spearman and position directly in front of bridge. If you have Ashi, use them first to soak up arrowfire. Order them to march to the otherside. Click just in front of the enemy archers. When the archers start to fire at them, order them to run. Enemy spear/horse/monks will rush them at a certain point. Pay close attention to the attacker's speed, and a little before they're engaged, order them to RUN back across the bridge. The enemy will follow, and your archers will tear them up. Yes, your one ashi unit got hit pretty bad by the enemy archers, but so what?

Make sure to stop the ashi just on the other side of the bridge in case monks/horse make it all the way across without running because of the arrow fire and heavy casualties (this rarely happens--they run back out of range). If the ashi flee, move another spear unit up to block the bridge on your side. The enemy will reassume positions behind their archers.

Move the damaged spear unit to the back of your army and let them rest (if they weren't decimated so bad that they flee the field). If they did, no biggie. Select the next spear unit. Repeat the process, one spear unit at a time, until all but the enemy's archers have been severely reduced by your arrow fire. Remember though, position each spear unit right in front of the bridge before ordering them to march across so they're aligned with it in a 4-man wide formation. This way they don't get hung up on the narrow bridge as much.

Two things to keep in consideration regarding your archers. 1) If the enemy flees back to its original position sometimes some units will straggle just within range to draw your fire. Order your archers to cease fire if this happens. You don't want to run out of ammo. 2) if the enemy general charges the bring, order ALL of your archers, including those you originally ordered to hold fire, to fire. DO NOT order them to fire at anything specifically as this often triggers them to try and march across the bridge. Just select them and click on the fire-at-will button and let them do their thing.

If your archers in the front two rows on each side of the bridge run out of ammo, move them behind the reserve archers, and move the reserve archers up to the river edge and set them to fire at will.

If horse charge across the bridge, turn your spearmen back around and immediately attack them when they have reached YOUR side of the bridge, and reverse the choke point on them! Double whammy--archers AND spear nailing them. Major enemy casualties. If they're monks, they're history.

At a point after repeating this process 4-5 times, it will be obvious that the remaining non-archer enemies will not be able to hold your remaining spearmen. Leave the archers where they are to provide cover fire, select all ground units, and have them CHARGE across the bridge. If any enemy units try to block the bridge, charge them at this point. They are so reduced in numbers, morale, and endurance that you will crush them no matter what they are (the monks are all dead or fled by now from the arrow fire). When you reach the enemy side of the bridge, select ALL units and charge the archers, changing to loose formation until you are about to close with them. The entire enemy army will route. Stay on their butts to assure they flee the field.

This method works for me every time, on expert level. Yeah, I lose about half my spear (but those that live gain honor). And if they have Cav archers, sometimes I'll lose a few of the archers closest to the shore.

If you were to auto-calculate a bridge province battle as the attacker, you better have 3 to 4 times the troop strength as the enemy, or you will lose. However, an equal number of troops can take the province using this method I've described, and you will have fewer casualties than the enemy in what is supposed to be a defender's paradise (bridge crossing).

Fortunately, the AI doesn't use this attack method, so when you defend the province, autocalculate and you will win against attacks of up to 4 times your troop strength!

Just remember to really watch the timing when the enemy attacks your single spear "bait" units ... turn them around and run them back at just the right time. The enemy should be right on their heels, but should not engage them. That's the only tricky part really. That and not running out of arrows.

Try it ... it's awesome, and once you've taken the river province, all you need to leave there is an evenly distributed army of SA/YS, about 2/3 the number you'd leave to defend a a non-river province. Of course, the honor level of your troops should be about the same or better on average as the enemy's. River provinces are great choke points on the strategy map, as AI enemies will often launch massive attacks against them again and again and lose if you autocalculate (Musashi and Owari in particular because of the wealth and strategic defense value they represent.

Nice man well the minute i read this I went and played the game for a bit since i usually dont use armies to win im a ninja and then bribe them kinda guy

Bridge assaults in STW are actually pretty easy compared to MTW. The best way to attack is to send all of your cavalry at high speeed across the bridge then break left and right and bring them up behind the enemy lines. Unlike in MTW, the enemy doesn't attampt to rush the bridge when your units are on it, so you will have time to do this. Once the cavalry are in a flanking position you can deploy your Yari Samuari across the bridge and attack, then bring in your cavalry to flank and finish them off.

Daimyo unit is ideal. The enemy will chase it and stop defending the bridge, with a couple cavalry archers and other cavalry sent across you can win.

All archers is next best. Send one across, destroy any units that come near it. You'll have way more ammo than the defenders.

I like to use cav in the manner described, going left and right after crossing and harrassing/attacking from both sides. I do this often in Takeda campaign openings, when the armies are small. Taking Musashi on the first turn can be fun this way.

When facing a full stack or more of diverse units spread across the map, I've found that horse will usually be attacked once they cross the river. If there are yari cav, yari sams, or ashi in the enemy mix, under a competent general, the cav first over to each side technique can be problematic, particularly so on tight maps.

In the all archer scenario, doesn't the archer sent across get pounded by the enemy archers?

Archers can shoot, but they cost more. They make economic sense in this kind of situation if you're playing as Uesugi in particular. But, as arrow fodder/bait, yari sams or ashi are cheaper and just as effective. That they shred any cav attempting to defend the bridge is a big plus too.

I find ashi's rout too fast.

Yari sams are maybe better, but the only time I tried this I was doing an archers only campaign.

Indeed about the Daimyo unit. In early game, the Daimyo and hatamoto are the best "bait and lead unit," hands down. The enemy will generally follow them around, and pay less attention to what your other units are doing. One of the exceptions to this though is in a bridge battle against a large defending army.

Yeah, ashigaru lack armor and get decimated faster by enemy archer fire. Their morale is plop, so they usually route for good after being used once as bait, particularly if the enemy has a lot of archers.

Naginata, while much better armored, are a lot slower, tire a lot faster, and their morale is not that much better. They don't work well baiting because they lack speed. Fast cav are big targets and take rapid heavy casualties from defending fire. If spears catch them, they're toast. Both of these cost more than I like spending for baiters.

I use ashis when I don't have enough Yari sams; I send them first, one at a time, and don't plan on any of them being around after one bait run. With yari sams, after a back-n-forth bait, usually about half the unit remains, which can rest and be saved for the final attack across the bridge. I figure yari sams at 200 koku have decent armor and adequate speed and morale to best fulfill the role required in this scenario.

Admittedly, the method I posted is not the most fun. It's even exploitive of the AI's inability to "catch on" to what you're doing and adjust its tactics. The cav method is much more fun. But if you need to win a bridge battle against a large entrenched army without losing a large investment in troops, the method works well. One can win big bridge battles consistently against a large diversified army and take fewer losses than the defender.

Thanks..I have some new strategies to play with.[

Hi Ed! :bow:

Always intresting the river crossing battles... Defending is easy and with musketeers you can kill up to thousands, but attacking was always a problem without the right troops or timing and concentration. ~:)

Usually I took lots and lots of archers. (3/4th of my army mostly) and some cav. I would use 1 cav unit to walk on the bridge, then shoot any units that comes in to attack my cavalry. I withdraw my cavalry and keep repeating this, until almost his entire army is gone. Then, depending on the enemy troops I send in my cav for a real attack or use my archers (that are out of ammo) to chase the last units away.

Musks make it lots more intresting, especially in sunny weather. hehe ~:) :smash:

Another tactick I liked to use, was meant for if the enemy had lots of ranged too. (archers/musks/cav archers) I would send 1 fast cav unit. (yari cavalry preferably) past the bridge and then move it to the side. the enemy would then ruin his formation and send lots of troops to chase the cav. then I would use quick infantry (WM+No-dachi) to cross the bridge and engage the enemy before his ranged units could do much significant damage. ~:)

Hope it helps for a bit..

good luck!!:book: