French - Language of Fighting

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20070216/D8NAS3V00.html

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Canny Pilot, Travelers Subdue Hijacker
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Feb 16, 9:37 AM (ET)

By JUAN MANUEL PARDELLAS

TENERIFE, Canary Islands - A fast-thinking pilot with passengers in cahoots fooled a hijacker by braking hard upon landing, then accelerating to knock the man down. When he fell, flight attendants threw boiling water in his face, and about 10 people pounced on him, Spanish officials said Friday.

The Air Mauritania Boeing 737 carrying 71 passengers and a crew of eight was hijacked by a lone gunman brandishing two pistols Thursday evening shortly after it took off from Nouakchott, the capital of Mauritania, for Gran Canaria, one of Spain's Canary Islands, with a planned stopover in Nouadhibou in northern Mauritania.

The hijacking alarmed Spanish officials because a trial of 29 people accused in the Madrid terrorist bombings of 2004 had begun the same day in Madrid. But the man's motives were not terrorism; he wanted the plane to fly to France so he could request political asylum, said Mohamed Ould Mohamed Cheikh, Mauritania's top police official.

"We were afraid. We thought it was people from al-Qaida or the Algerian GSPC who were going to cut our throats," said Aicha Mint Sidi, a 45-year-old woman who was on the plane. The GSPC is a Muslim extremist group.

"I trembled during and after the hijacking. I thought the plane was going to blow up any minute, either in mid-air or on landing," said another passenger, Dahi Ould Ali, 52. Both spoke after returning to Nouakchott.

The hijacker has been identified as Mohamed Abderraman, a 32-year-old Mauritanian, said an official with the Spanish Interior Ministry office on Tenerife, another of the islands in the Atlantic archipelago. He spoke under ground rules barring publication of his name. Mauritania has said the hijacker was a Moroccan from the Western Sahara.

The hijacker ordered the pilot to fly to France, but the crew told him there was not enough fuel. And Morocco denied a request to land in the city of Djala in the Moroccan-controlled Western Sahara, so the pilot headed for Las Palmas in Gran Canaria, the original destination.

Along the way, speaking to the hijacker, the pilot realized the man did not speak French. So he used the plane's public address system to warn the passengers in French of the ploy he was going to try: brake hard upon landing, then speed up abruptly. The idea was to catch the hijacker off balance, and have crew members and men sitting in the front rows of the plane jump him, the Spanish official said.

The pilot also warned women and children to move to the back of the plane in preparation for the subterfuge, the official said.

It worked. The man was standing in the middle aisle when the pilot carried out his maneuver, and he fell to the floor, dropping one of his two 7 mm pistols. Flight attendants then threw boiling water from a coffee machine in his face and at his chest, and some 10 people jumped on the man and beat him, the Spanish official said.

Around 20 people were slightly injured when the plane braked suddenly, the official said.

The hijacker was arrested by Spanish police who boarded the plane after it landed at Gando airport, outside Las Palmas.

Air Mauritania identified the heroic pilot as Ahmedou Mohamed Lemine, a 20-year-veteran of the company.

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Well done, I say!

Crazed Rabbit

You couldn't make that up. Well done.

Hmmm next time I ask for asylum in a country, I will learn the language.

Congrats to the crew.

In a way, I feel kinda sorry for that hijacker. Not in the sense that he should be released from custody and send home with flowers and an apology or anything. But in the way that he sounds like a completely uneducated, poor schmuck dreaming of something entirely unatainable. That he is from Mauretania and can't speak French means he is at least semi-illiterate, and probably uneducated. He's totally clueless. He doesn't understand airplane fuel supply. He has no clue about maps or distances. And he doesn't realise that one cannot hijack planes anymore after 9/11. The old days of authorities giving in to demands and stalling for time until a hijacker makes a mistake are gone.
Even if he would've made it to France - then what? He wouldn't have been granted asylum, never. Did he hope to sneak off and live as an illegal?

Pity, half of Africa's young people are desperate to make it to Europe. Their heads are full of dreams of this promised land, they're willing to risk anything to make it to here. They drown in the Atlantic or Mediteranean, they get their entire families capital ripped off by human traffickers, they hijack planes.
And who can blame 'em. Mauratania is just another of those military regimes in Africa, stealing for themselves whatever little wealth their country holds.

A tragedy all of this.

What a jerk of a pilot. Incredibly stupid! I'd say the odds were against this ploy would work and what if he'd remained standing and people tried to attack him? Someone could've easily have been dead.

Now you think the pilot is a hero? Well, I got news for you, he was an idiot endangering the lives of others.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

What a jerk of a pilot. Incredibly stupid! I'd say the odds were against this ploy would work and what if he'd remained standing and people tried to attack him? Someone could've easily have been dead.

Now you think the pilot is a hero? Well, I got news for you, he was an idiot endangering the lives of others.

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He thought the hijacker had bombs or something. Sure he wouldn't have done it otherwise.

I think that pilot deserves a medal.

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In a way, I feel kinda sorry for that hijacker. Not in the sense that he should be released from custody and send home with flowers and an apology or anything. But in the way that he sounds like a completely uneducated, poor schmuck dreaming of something entirely unatainable. That he is from Mauretania and can't speak French means he is at least semi-illiterate, and probably uneducated. He's totally clueless.

Even if he would've made it to France - then what? He wouldn't have been granted asylum, never

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Yeah, he is a right shmuck. He should have made for the UK instead. Here you can hijack a plane, and never get deported, because it would be contrary to your human rights if we did :wall:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nhijack11.xml

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Rabinder Singh, QC, appearing for the hijackers, said ... they had all had "a torrid time" since entering the country and were still suffering stress and anxiety-related ailments.

Of the 170 people on the plane, 89 returned voluntarily to Afghanistan and nearly 50 passengers, including 13 dependants, claimed asylum. The nine hijackers and 25 family members have been resettled in rent-free housing in west London and receive benefits

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I'm not the kind of bloke who feels the country is going to the dogs, but really, its going to the dogs.

Agreed. He truly was brave. Who knows what the man would have done when the plane landed. You can never tell what people carrying two pistols and hijacking a plan may do. It was risky, in the sense that if the hijacker had even a basic grasp of French he may have understood what was said, but all in all it was a worth it and a very worthy and brave action from the pilot.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Yeah, he is a right shmuck. He should have made for the UK instead. Here you can hijack a plane, and never get deported, because it would be contrary to your human rights if we did :wall:

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Surely that's a fault of over-indulging lawyers rather than the Human Rights Act? :wink3:

After all, France and Spain both have the Act integrated, and they may well have sent the fellow home.

Which, IMHO, would be the worst fate this poor fellow could suffer. I have had the fortune to work in Mauretania, and it is not, shall we say, a garden spot.

*I have waited so long for a Mauretania thread. Cue favourite after dinner anecdote*

I once flew internal Air Mauretanie (much like EasyJet but without the surly girls) and was rather discomfited when some locals decided to get down to their packed lunch. This procedure involved lighting a camel dung fire near the cockpit and attempting to toast a small animal (thankfully pre-deceased). The crew's intervention (aside from trying to secure a bite of the aforementioned dead thing) was confined to exhorting one nomad not to open the door to allow fresh air in.

It is not the most scared I have been on a flight, because I have flown Aeroflot. :scared:

They chose not to be complacent victims, bully for them.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

What a jerk of a pilot. Incredibly stupid! I'd say the odds were against this ploy would work and what if he'd remained standing and people tried to attack him? Someone could've easily have been dead.

Now you think the pilot is a hero? Well, I got news for you, he was an idiot endangering the lives of others.

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I'd say the pilot knew the odds much better than you.

Yes, someone could have gotten hurt - but I'm glad these people were not so paralyzed by fear that they meekly gave in to threats of violence. The passengers did not act like sheep, they were not complacent collateral whose only purpose was to be used as hostages.

What they did is heroic, and necessary, considering the change in attitudes about hijacking.

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I once flew internal Air Mauretanie (much like EasyJet but without the surly girls) and was rather discomfited when some locals decided to get down to their packed lunch. This procedure involved lighting a camel dung fire near the cockpit and attempting to toast a small animal (thankfully pre-deceased). The crew's intervention (aside from trying to secure a bite of the aforementioned dead thing) was confined to exhorting one nomad not to open the door to allow fresh air in.

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So, did they start up a merry little dung fire then?

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I'm not the kind of bloke who feels the country is going to the dogs, but really, its going to the dogs.

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I love* how the court (which I'm assuming is one of those European Union Courts) said deterance had been served by jailing the hijackers for periods of 5 years or less, than giving them and their families free housing and living assistance.

Crazed Rabbit
*In a bleak, that is so terrible it's funny, way.

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I love* how the court (which I'm assuming is one of those European Union Courts) said deterance had been served by jailing the hijackers for periods of 5 years or less, than giving them and their families free housing and living assistance.

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No, I'm afraid this was a home grown English, High Court sort of Court. We can't blame our fellow Europeans for this one. Not even the French.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Yes, someone could have gotten hurt - but I'm glad these people were not so paralyzed by fear that they meekly gave in to threats of violence. The passengers did not act like sheep, they were not complacent collateral whose only purpose was to be used as hostages.

What they did is heroic, and necessary, considering the change in attitudes about hijacking.

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however heroic it was, and i applaude them for bravery etc, it was stupid, in hijackings/kidnapping etc its always best to do as the aggressor wants, its much better to be a hostage as opposed to being dead, i hope people in similar incidents in the future dont act in the same way, if it had gone wrong the pilot and several passengers might be dead - in those situations people should act like sheep, its a lot safer... :2thumbsup:

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I love* how the court (which I'm assuming is one of those European Union Courts) said deterance had been served by jailing the hijackers for periods of 5 years or less, than giving them and their families free housing and living assistance.
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:yes: --> although i have great sympathy for the family

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Originally Posted by English assassin

We can't blame our fellow Europeans for this one. Not even the French.

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Never underestimate our cunning perfidity. ~;)

*cough* Sangatte.

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Most of the 1,000 immigrants allowed into Britain four years ago under a controversial deal to close the Sangatte refugee camp near Calais are jobless, it emerged.

Eight out of ten have claimed unemployment benefit since coming to the UK in December 2002, while a third have never been in work at all.

Former Home Secretary David Blunkett agreed to accept hundreds of immigrants from France as the price of ending the embarrassing saga of the Sangatte Red Cross camp where they were living - which for years was a base for tens of thousands of foreigners illegally smuggling themselves into the UK through the Channel ports to claim asylum.

After lengthy bargaining with his French counterpart David Blunkett agreed to take in up to a thousand young Iraqis and some 200 Afghan men - representing the bulk of the 1,500 immigrants living in the Sangatte camp at the time - regardless of whether they were genuine refugees.

Most Iraqis passing through Sangatte at the time reached the UK and lodged asylum claims, 80 per cent of which were judged to be bogus.

All genuine refugees are meant to claim asylum in the first safe country they reached and therefore should have sought refuge in France or elsewhere.

David Blunkett tried to present the deal as a triumph for Britain,

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

however heroic it was, and i applaude them for bravery etc, it was stupid, in hijackings/kidnapping etc its always best to do as the aggressor wants, its much better to be a hostage as opposed to being dead, i hope people in similar incidents in the future dont act in the same way, if it had gone wrong the pilot and several passengers might be dead - in those situations people should act like sheep, its a lot safer... :2thumbsup:

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Normally, this would be a sound tactic, but since 9/11 this has changed. Better to die fighting than to be an unsuspecting "accomplice" in a much higher death toll.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

however heroic it was, and i applaude them for bravery etc, it was stupid, in hijackings/kidnapping etc its always best to do as the aggressor wants, its much better to be a hostage as opposed to being dead, i hope people in similar incidents in the future dont act in the same way, if it had gone wrong the pilot and several passengers might be dead - in those situations people should act like sheep, its a lot safer... :2thumbsup:

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I believe there was an event in the last six years or so that I thought had changed that line of thinking. Apparently not for everyone.

And considering mortality rates from abductions in the US, it's best to always struggle to get free when being kidnapped.

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No, I'm afraid this was a home grown English, High Court sort of Court. We can't blame our fellow Europeans for this one. Not even the French.

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My goodness .... that's just stupid.

CR

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My goodness .... that's just stupid.

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I take it you are glad that your government changed its policy in 2003 then . A big change since its policy had been consistant since 1959 .

With the case of those Afghan hijackers there was nothing else the British courts could legally do , its the law see . You cannot hand someone over to another country if they may face the death penalty , I think the Taliban may possibly have had one of those penalties in place for something like hijacking :idea2: plus of course how do you hand someone over to a government or judiciary that you do not recognise .

Anyhow back to topic , well done to the pilot .:2thumbsup: ..... but then again look at his name ....Ahmedou Mohamed Lemineblody hell he is a potential terrorist , take away his pilots license before he sucumbs to the infamous sudden jihad syndrome .:scared:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

....Ahmedou Mohamed Lemineblody hell he is a potential terrorist , take away his pilots license before he sucumbs to the infamous sudden jihad syndrome .:scared:

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The Chicago Bears' wide receiver Mushin Muhammad was rarely covered by opposing defenses for fear of his rib pads being tnt and his cotton undershirt being a shroud. True story...

Can we get a picture of Captain Ahmedou Mohamed Lemine to stick in the Testicular Fortitude Thread?

Re Sjakihata & Scurvy: If every plane were to resist hijacking, there wouldn't be much incentive to hijack planes, since the failure rate would be around 100%. There'd be innocent lives lost in the process, but probably more saved in the end. It's kind of the opposite of paying for the return of kidnapped civilians, ala 1980's Lebanon, which shows the foe that continuing to kidnap civilians is a lucrative business plan. Of course it's a lot easier for me to sit here in front of my computer screen and urge people to take on for the team than to be in a crisis situation and face possible death, so I'm not going to expect pilots and passengers to put their lives on the line to stop a hijacker, but I'm certainly not going to condemn their bravery.

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

What a jerk of a pilot. Incredibly stupid! I'd say the odds were against this ploy would work and what if he'd remained standing and people tried to attack him? Someone could've easily have been dead.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Around 20 people were slightly injured when the plane braked suddenly, the official said.

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Perhaps not quite as stupid as you think. If twenty passengers who are presumably sitting down get slight injuries from the braking there's not much of a chance for a standing man to remain standing.

What if there was a bomb aboard and the terrorist decide to blow it? You shouldn't gamble or take chances in these situations.

The terrorist could still blow the bomb even if you do everything they ask. Cooperation has been shown dangerous.

Ajax