Small is beautiful - and potentially fatal

Nearly kicked the bucket last night. Not physically thank God, but M:TW-wise.

I was happily turtling along in my Expert Sicilian GA campaign. The year was 1280. Apart from Sicily, Malta, Napels, Sardinia, Corsica and Genoa, I had about 25 countries spread in a crescent from Castile through Africa to Antioch, plus Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Muscovy.

With all my Crusade goals fulfilled, I had over 1 million in the bank, a big well-balanced fleet, well-built provinces, a robust dynasty and a nice, tight high-tech army ready to strike at a moment's notice. The Mongols had come and gone (twice in fact, since they re-emerged in Lithuania) and it seemed that soon only the French would be left to oppose me. They had most of central Europe and a large chunk of Turkey.

I was working on the philosophy that small is beautiful, so I had small (though fully upgraded) armies, lots of ships and only a handful of agents. This minimal mode seemed to work fine because I had the best of everything. I had conquered the Italian province of Genoa after killing their 4-star general with my 6-star assassin, attacking them with a hand-picked army that was geared precisely to the Italian army-composition, and forcing a ceasefire before the Pope got his skirts in a twist.

Because of my minimal approach, I had no idea what was going on in the European mainland. I was not discouraged by the occasional message that the French had the largest armies. That was the whole idea, right? And they couldn't pin me down because of my naval superiority.

Then I noticed that the French were going into attack mode and began moving troops and ships in readiness for a strike on several fronts. They had the typical AI-fleet that is no good for trade and only serves blocking purposes; and it was moving into all the right blocking positions in straits and channels.

So I thought I would gamble and attack them first. The Pope was a long-standing ally and I hoped he would support me because of all I had done for the Church. I moved my fleet into all the right positions, too, and attacked the French fleet 'by surprise'. I sank a few, lost a few, the Pope kept his cool and merely cancelled his treaty with the French. I had the green light! So much for turn one.

On the next turn however, the French unleashed this GIANT army, coming from the center of Europe and stretching all the way to Denmark and Muscovy. It was as if the whole of central Europe had been a clearinghouse for French six-star generals, chivalric sergeants, Culverins, trebuchets and fancy horses. Hard to believe that they could build this monster on a no-trade budget, but there you had it: at least 25.000 troops of all shades, all ready to go for my throat under loads of Jedi generals.

It took me five turns and some horrendous defensive battles deep into the night, as well as some real strategic thinking and calculating with cold sweat on my brow, before I was safe again.

And then the Hungarians, the weakest faction left on the board, killed the heirless French king and turned them all into rebels. Easy as that.

Most of these rebel asses will be mine, but nonetheless... this was the first time in years that I was really strategically threatened by the AI and I feared I would get the game over' sign.

Great game, M:TW.

Wow. :2thumbsup:

Isn't that good to see something like this? Being thrilled for several hours, kind of wondering "how, how, how, bloody hell, how???". 'hope you could have some sleep, finally!

I'm looking forward to see something like this.

For now, I'm slowly climbing the scales of the ladder. Not to the top yet!

It was similar in the expert Danish campaign you advised me on Adrian (which I still need to see about transfering to my laptop, now where did I put those writable CDS). That campaign was the reverse, with the BYZ and the Alomonds having large armies until I decided to build up a military with new tech I had built (previously playing mostly defense). I later found out the opposite, after sweating with beating the Alomonds and then the Byz terminating much of my trade:furious3: , I spanked the Byz in several provinces and found they had stretched themselves thin, though I am sure they have plenty of troops that have retreated before my expanding armies:book: . Unfortunately, I am hardly 1 million to the good, more like close to going in the hole. But, MTW, gotta love it when the AI throws you for a loop.

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Originally Posted by Caerfanan

Wow. :2thumbsup:

Isn't that good to see something like this? Being thrilled for several hours, kind of wondering "how, how, how, bloody hell, how???". 'hope you could have some sleep, finally!

I'm looking forward to see something like this.

For now, I'm slowly climbing the scales of the ladder. Not to the top yet!

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Oh man, I went to bed and woke up an hour later with the remains of a dream about a fantasy general named Alexandrapolites, together with whom I planned to conquer the Crimea... D'oh.. :dizzy2:

Yeah, isn't it great when a game doesn't bore you even after several years? I see others running and trying to catch up with the latest hype all the time -- you know, from Battlefield 1942 to Battlefield2 to Battlefield 2142, and on, and on -- and somehow they never seem satisfied with the game they have, they are always talking about the next one. I haven't even stopped talking about the last one, Shogun..
:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Oh man, I went to bed and woke up an hour later with the remains of a dream about a fantasy general named Alexandrapolites, together with whom I planned to conquer the Crimea... D'oh.. :dizzy2:

Yeah, isn't it great when a game doesn't bore you even after several years? I see others running and trying to catch up with the latest hype all the time -- you know, from Battlefield 1942 to Battlefield2 to Battlefield 2142, and on, and on -- and somehow they never seem satisfied with the game they have, they are always talking about the next one. I haven't even stopped talking about the last one, Shogun..
:thumbsup:

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Well, I think that we are condemned to see people walk in the streets and automatically imagine the best maneuver to flank them, looking at the best place to shoot arrows.... :stupido2:

I'm also the kind of guy who can play a very long time with one game. I played Civ III (with the conquests extension) for more than two years. I stopped only because I had MTW:VI installed.

I'm going to a restaurant with two friends tonight. But I KNOW that a part of my brain will be pondering options about who to attack, and when, etc, etc...

:beam:

Very cool, Adrian II. :thumbsup: Yeah, it's campaigns like that that keep me coming back to this game. No matter how many times one plays it, it can still keep you on your toes!

The minimal approach works fine only if one makes sure that no other faction becomes too big. Balance is the key. However, sometimes unforseen things can happen and give you quite a scare. Once I was playing a MedMod campaign with the Pechenegs, and by 1230 I had slowly managed to carve out a nice Empire in Eastern Europe, with only the Sicilians becoming large as they spread throughout North Africa and the Middle East, as they usually do in this mod. I had a larger fleet and could hold them indeffinitely in Nicea, and they were also allies and busy fighting against other catholics and dealing with excommunications and reemerging Popes. I had left the Cumans hanging around - they had a few large armies and fighting them would cause too many casualties, plus I planned to use them as a shield against the Mongols. I figured - if the Mongols win, they will be weakened by the time they arrive at my border, and if the Cumans win, well, I will just finish them. I made sure I had Lithuania, Kiev and Levidia as my Eastern border because of the rivers and was waiting for what I thought would be easy one or two battles with the Horde and then the final conquest of the Steppes,s ecuring my Eastern border before I move at leisure against the Sicilians.
So I had the Cumans with a few stacks in Khazar and Chernigov, one stack in Volga Bulgaria (I had a pagan shaman there as a spy) and as a result the Mongols appeared both in Khazar and Volga Bulgaria. The Cumans had built a fortress and an armourer's guild in Khazar, so all the Mongols' troops received a silver shield upgrade. Now the Cumans pulled a rather unexpected and nice move - they simply attacked me in Kiev and Levidia with all they had in Khazar and Chernigov, and moved the army in Volga Bulgaria in Ryazan and in a few turns attacked with it in Lithuania. The battles in Kiev and Levidia were easy victories, but still cost me some casualties, and the battle in Lithuania was a tough victory. In the same time the Sicilians attacked me by sea, and made an attempt at Nicea. They lost in Nicea despite their uber cavalry (way too powerful in the MedMod), but blocked my trade routes causing me to start losing a few thousand per turn. No big deal, I had plenty of savings to draw upon, and I figured it is all OK - I just need to stop the Mongols and then I will be able to deal with the Sicilians.
The next turn the Mongols decided that they did not have any interest in Georgia, garrisoned by less than 200 Sicilians, but gathered the whole Horde and only leaving a token garrison in Khazar (the Cumans simply abandoned Khazar), marched in Levidia. I lost the battle, but killed the Khan, and figured that this would be it, just plenty of MHCs to bribe. The the Cuman army arrived in Lithuania and I won, but at the end of the battle had very few troops in the province and as I had conquered Lithuania only a few turns ago, a Cuman loyalist rebellion started, which was joined by all of the remaining Mongol troops!
I do not keep any screenshots, but it was absolutely unbelievable, the perfect storm in an MTW game. I managed to survive with bribes and desperate defensive battles, plus the sacrifice of unloyal high star generals in those battles (a civil war in this case would have meant the end). A Pope's reemergence to slow down the Sicilians helped a lot - this was perhaps the only the only time I felt true love and admiration for the Holy Father, ironically enough playing with a pagan faction.

Well, Kavhan Isbul, a pity, I would've loved to see some screenshots. A thrilling game you had obviously!!! :2thumbsup:

I have always supported the assertion that MTW has a lot of play in it, I haven't even played all the factions yet, never mind used all the starting periods!

There most definitely are sides to keeping your faction small. At the beginning its easier to keep the neighbours from stabbing you in the back - as long as the main lands are defended by a relatively small but strong and good quality army, others won't regard it as a threat nor as easy pickings. Also, getting to develop in peace without constantly having to fight off dozens of peasant units and roll over an undeveloped opponent is a welcome change indeed. And lastly, a small faction faces, even with a strong financial backing, a number of challenges.

Too bad that in my recent Sicilian campaign all the major players have been torn apart by either a civil war or each other, so they'll never get to their feet again. And the Byzantines, unsurpsingly, lost their fleet after getting jealous of my trade. I didn't even have to fight them on land, as the Turks did that for me. I did bribe one of their decimated armies for a single Varangian guard, which I'm training to become the greatest warrior in Europe (valour 6 thus far, can kill up to 70 guys in a battle), just to experiment a bit. Never did like those Kensais in Shogun, though. I'm thinking of trying to help one of the concurrent factions to their feet, but it sounds too much like work.

My small but beautiful Dane campaign ended with my 60% win in 1386:2thumbsup: . And this was the campaign that Adrain said would be a tough battle:beam: !

I enjoyed staying small for a quite a time. Now I am in a HRE campaign and trying to do the same thing. I gave up a few territories to keep a core central, though I may decide to swat the French at some time, they don't seeem to like me very much.

Keeping smaller borders really allows you to tech up quicker and try to hold onto the more profitable areas rather than just expanding everywhere.

IMHO the two keys to the game are #1 massive naval superiority and #2 small borders. My decesion to attack a province usually depends on whether I can move my whole front forward to minimize the number of border provinces I have. In my current French campaign, my European border goes North to South: Friesland, Franconia, Swabia, Burgundy, Provence. Since I have Naval superiority I don't have to defend anything West of there, including the entire Iberian Penninsula. This saves drastically on upkeep costs. Because the pope is in Genoa with about five stacks, and I don't want to make him an enemy, I can't really expand any further into Europe without recruiting several more defensive armies. Instead I went across N. Africa and I'm currently crusading in the Holy land.

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Originally Posted by gunslinger

My decesion to attack a province usually depends on whether I can move my whole front forward to minimize the number of border provinces I have.

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Yup, there are several of these strategic lines on the campaign map. There is the Pyrenees, useful if you want to hold Iberia c.q. defend against the dominant Iberian power. Another one would be Lithuania + Kiev, a line that is useful for keeping the Mongols at bay.

The central European line you mention has the advantage of minimum numbers of borders + possession of iron-holding Franconia.

@ gaijinalways, good to hear everything went smoothly. Your description suggested that Almohads were ready to devour you, hence my prediction that you would have a tough time. I agree with your small is beautiful approach. Those oversized nonsense empires are boring.. :yes:

There's one other modest benefit from being small: You're generally much more successful in obtaining marriages to other factions' princesses. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Martok

There's one other modest benefit from being small: You're generally much more successful in obtaining marriages to other factions' princesses. :yes:

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I see. So being small makes you popular with the chicks? :tiny:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

I see. So being small makes you popular with the chicks? :tiny:

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LOL! :laugh4:

Er--I mean, bad Adrian! :whip:

I also like keeping my number of borders down, so not expanding too quickly is key. I also like to troop rush the AI as I notice if you let the AI overrun provinces, they often get complacent and overstretched, and when you have built up enough troops, you romp.

Side note; Adrian, I used you tips actually, so I am awarding that victory to you. The Alomonds were tough, but they couldn't crack me, and once I squashed their navy (and most of the Byz's fleet) it was easy sailing. I found the BYz to be overated once I had more than mere vikings!