Patch 2 release date

Directly from totalwarblog.com:

Hi guys,

As promised, here is an update regarding Update 2. It is due to go into final testing at SEGA on 16th March. All going well, we then hope to have it ready for release approximately a week later. Because of the new tools included in the update (such as the cinematic editor and battle editor), the update size will be about 650 megs. This also means that we required additional time to set up sufficient mirror sites to cope with demand for the update. The team would like to thank you again for your patience, and I will bring you any further news as I receive it.

Best regards,

Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)

http://www.totalwarblog.com/

Looks like we still have awhile to wait here.

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650 megs

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:stunned: Dude.....

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Directly from totalwarblog.com:

Hi guys,

As promised, here is an update regarding Update 2. It is due to go into final testing at SEGA on 16th March. All going well, we then hope to have it ready for release approximately a week later. Because of the new tools included in the update (such as the cinematic editor and battle editor), the update size will be about 650 megs. This also means that we required additional time to set up sufficient mirror sites to cope with demand for the update. The team would like to thank you again for your patience, and I will bring you any further news as I receive it.

Best regards,

Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)

http://www.totalwarblog.com/

Looks like we still have awhile to wait here.

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Good news. Yeah that is a while to wait but better to have something a little firm then ambaquity.

Yeah its a big patch. Most of that is probably due to the new launcher included in it.

Launcher???

Or have you got to keep stum about that?

It's a new version of the launcher when you put the dvd into the drive. Im not sure how much has been said in public about it though.

meh, they should include a version with the fix only, I don't really care for the editors. the editors should be separate and ppl who wants it can get it.

I'm pretty disappointed about this timetable that's been given. If previous info has been true, and the patch was in "lockdown" mode last week, so to begin "final testing" on the 16th is either wrong, or the process is pretty messed up. Also, setting up mirror sites can be done by one individual in a matter of hours, so is not a valid reason for further delay.

I appreciate a company that makes sure it gets something right, but there does need to be some sense of urgency get the patch out. Considering that some fundamental, gamebreaking bugs were not addressed in the first patch, this seems a complete 180. Perhaps they need a much larger pool of testers, or maybe they should work an occasional weekend (like the rest of the IT world), to fix a product that has been fundatmentally broken since it's release. I generally don't complain, and this is the first complaint I've made about anything in the TW line, but I'd really like to play the game that I spent $60 on again.

The editors aren't making the patch big, i know for certain the battle editor is just a few fixes for it as its already in 1.0 and 1.1, 1.2 will probably make it avilable form the options menu without having to edit the .cfg file. If the cinematic editor is like the movie cam from RTw that won't be that big either.

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Originally Posted by craziii

meh, they should include a version with the fix only, I don't really care for the editors. the editors should be separate and ppl who wants it can get it.

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Excellent point!

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If previous info has been true, and the patch was in "lockdown" mode last week, so to begin "final testing" on the 16th is either wrong, or the process is pretty messed up.

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That would be my info, and no it was not wrong:

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To clarify, the Update is currently being tested internally at CA Oz, and will then go for final testing at SEGA on the 16th.

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Just Caliban did not make it clear that it was in testing at CA Oz, instead of the final testing done by SEGA.

I would expect the cinematic editor to be quite big, but 650 MB?
I suspect that the update contains plenty of new/fixed animations.

Didn't they ever hear of peer2peer downloading? That is how World of Warcraft distributes its patches, and they are always massive.
It would save CA a ton in traffic.

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I suspect that the update contains plenty of new/fixed animations.

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True it does have the fixed 2 handed axe animations.

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I'm pretty disappointed about this timetable that's been given. If previous info has been true, and the patch was in "lockdown" mode last week, so to begin "final testing" on the 16th is either wrong, or the process is pretty messed up.

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Not really, if they found a bug with whatever they've done they'd have to fix it and send it off for final testing again. Final Testing mearly means they've got a final big test in which they don't expect any genuine major issues. That dosen't mean none will turn up, they just don't expect any to show up.

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I appreciate a company that makes sure it gets something right, but there does need to be some sense of urgency get the patch out. Considering that some fundamental, gamebreaking bugs were not addressed in the first patch, this seems a complete 180. Perhaps they need a much larger pool of testers, or maybe they should work an occasional weekend (like the rest of the IT world), to fix a product that has been fundatmentally broken since it's release. I generally don't complain, and this is the first complaint I've made about anything in the TW line, but I'd really like to play the game that I spent $60 on again.

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The problem is that it take a lot of time to fix many of these bugs. In particualr it takes a lot of careful tme and effeort to produce non-lifelike animations. to completly re-do the axe animation with no bugs in a lifelike way would take ages even for somone expirianced with easy to use tools. They also appear to have begun work, (probably before they where aware of the sheild bug), on a number of things like the hotseat campaign, and the AI, fixing that lot would also take time. Add on the sheild bug and it's hardly suprising they over-ran, even if it's easy to fix the amount of balance changes required isn't quick to do. In fact i'd say an extra month isn't too shabby at all when you get down to it.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

That would be my info, and no it was not wrong:



Just Caliban did not make it clear that it was in testing at CA Oz, instead of the final testing done by SEGA.

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Then it's a messed up process. Sounds like politics more than any other reason to me. Politics suck to begin with, but they should never get in the way of timely releasing a quality product in a timely fashion. Still, it's not nearly as bad as what EA or Microsoft do to their gaming partners.

650 megs packed that is eh? So how much is that after extraction and installation?!

(I really think those games are getting too large. I only have a 40 gig HDD of which 36 are taken - almost a third of that due to M2TW)

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Originally Posted by Carl

Not really, if they found a bug with whatever they've done they'd have to fix it and send it off for final testing again. Final Testing mearly means they've got a final big test in which they don't expect any genuine major issues. That dosen't mean none will turn up, they just don't expect any to show up.



The problem is that it take a lot of time to fix many of these bugs. In particualr it takes a lot of careful tme and effeort to produce non-lifelike animations. to completly re-do the axe animation with no bugs in a lifelike way would take ages even for somone expirianced with easy to use tools. They also appear to have begun work, (probably before they where aware of the sheild bug), on a number of things like the hotseat campaign, and the AI, fixing that lot would also take time. Add on the sheild bug and it's hardly suprising they over-ran, even if it's easy to fix the amount of balance changes required isn't quick to do. In fact i'd say an extra month isn't too shabby at all when you get down to it.

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I have an excellent grasp of the process of software development, so I really don't need a watered down explanation of it. If there is a major problem with the release, it is taken out of final testing, and must be addressed before final testing begins. Over-running is fine, but's that's not what we have here.

If you read carefully, you'll see that the problem here is TWO versions of final testing; one by the people who make the product, and another politically motivated test by the dominant company. I am fine with time taking longer, but as I said, there needs to be some urgency to get it out, and also a stream-lined process. We can't blame CA for this one, but it is disappointing that Sega would let politics get in the way of a timely release.

Ahh, Lusted wrote his reply after I started mine so i've only just spotteded it. ignore my point. Allthougfh as a clarification for in future, taking it out of final testing because they found somthing was specifficlly what I was suggesting might have happened. i.e. they put it in, found somthing, took it out, where now correcting it, and where then going to put it back in on the 16th.

Obviously as Lustd has shown that veiw was wrong, but I hope that clarifies what i was saying.

What I suspect is going on here is not politics at all but a case of CA lacking the facilities and people to test the game to SEGA's satisfaction, so CA tests for major bugs with their limited staff, then it gets passed to SEGA so they can give it a really thourgh test with a lot more people and find any minor bugs.

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Originally Posted by Carl

Ahh, Lusted wrote his reply after I started mine so i've only just spotteded it. ignore my point. Allthougfh as a clarification for in future, taking it out of final testing because they found somthing was specifficlly what I was suggesting might have happened. i.e. they put it in, found somthing, took it out, where now correcting it, and where then going to put it back in on the 16th.

Obviously as Lustd has shown that veiw was wrong, but I hope that clarifies what i was saying.

What I suspect is going on here is not politics at all but a case of CA lacking the facilities and people to test the game to SEGA's satisfaction, so CA tests for major bugs with their limited staff, then it gets passed to SEGA so they can give it a really thourgh test with a lot more people and find any minor bugs.

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Unless SEGA has a massive group of beta testers, they're not likely to find anything that slipped through the cracks for CA, since their test is estimated to take less than half of the time. If you've worked close to developers, or any IT group that is using partners, you'd know there is an extraordinary amount of politics around everything. Trust me, this one is almost definately politically motivated.

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What I suspect is going on here is not politics at all but a case of CA lacking the facilities and people to test the game to SEGA's satisfaction, so CA tests for major bugs with their limited staff, then it gets passed to SEGA so they can give it a really thourgh test with a lot more people and find any minor bugs.

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That is what happens, CA only have a few devs working on the patch so they can't do the amount of testing needed for the patch, so they test for the major bugs, then send it off to SEGA for final testing by SEGAs testers.

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Unless SEGA has a massive group of beta testers

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A few devs at CA, compared to a good few at SEGA(i saw at least 30 at SEGA HQ Europe in one of the testing rooms when i was there at the Gold Code day, though obviously not all are working on one game)

I am completely stunned that they don't have free beta-testers from the community. I've actually never heard of a gaming company using just it's developers to test a product. That explains much.

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I've actually never heard of a gaming company using just it's developers to test a product.

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They're not, they use the devs to do the initial testing as they make the game, then it goes off to SEGA's testers for full testing.

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Originally Posted by ergothead

Unless SEGA has a massive group of beta testers, they're not likely to find anything that slipped through the cracks for CA, since their test is estimated to take less than half of the time. If you've worked close to developers, or any IT group that is using partners, you'd know there is an extraordinary amount of politics around everything. Trust me, this one is almost definately politically motivated.

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I have been the accountant for a company that had a large IT development division back in the .com days. We did partner with Cisco to get our product on thier routers.

Long story short, i can confirm this posts theme based on my own expirence.

Sad? yeah.... Reality? Yeah. So if you are familiar with the processes involved then this delayed release schedule shouldnt be any surprise at all, the fact that there is a concrete date suggests to me that CA is letting the gamers know they are done, its on sega now.

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Originally Posted by ergothead

If you read carefully, you'll see that the problem here is TWO versions of final testing; one by the people who make the product, and another politically motivated test by the dominant company.

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What do you mean by "politically motivated"? I genuinely have not got a clue what motives you are referring to. :shrug:

Anyway, I thought it was standard practice for the publisher to test something submitted by the designer? They are at more of a distance from it, so may be able to see things more objectively. It sounds like they have more resources. And in the end, it's they who have ultimate responsibility for the product, so they need to be satisfied.

I am pretty sure it's what's happened with all other TW games.

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Originally Posted by econ21

What do you mean by "politically motivated"? I genuinely have not got a clue what motives you are referring to. :shrug:

Anyway, I thought it was standard practice for the publisher to test something submitted by the designer? They are at more of a distance from it, so may be able to see things more objectively. It sounds like they have more resources. And in the end, it's they who have ultimate responsibility for the product, so they need to be satisfied.

I am pretty sure it's what's happened with all other TW games.

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Yes its pretty much what happens with all games/software with developers and 2nd party publishers. Some call it politics, others call it standard business practice....

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Originally Posted by econ21

What do you mean by "politically motivated"? I genuinely have not got a clue what motives you are referring to. :shrug:

Anyway, I thought it was standard practice for the publisher to test something submitted by the designer? They are at more of a distance from it, so may be able to see things more objectively. It sounds like they have more resources. And in the end, it's they who have ultimate responsibility for the product, so they need to be satisfied.

I am pretty sure it's what's happened with all other TW games.

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Trust me on this one, econ, you are much better off knowing nothing of politics in a work environment if you don't absolutely have to.

::whoops, active thread. this is a response to ergo::

I've heard of and seen plenty. Free beta testers usually cost more to organize than they are worth. Testing for bugs isn't all that exciting and glamorous as I'm sure your aware; I'm sure the cost/benefit and time to finish is better this way.

I doubt they are actually testing for bugs rather than test for whether their fixes work.

Fixes that work will probably make it onto the final list and those that don't will be omitted but the code still implemented as it probably takes too much time to find which bits of code were useless.

They won't spend time finding new bugs as otherwise they might as well patch everything on the ORG buglist and other buglists and this is only one of many patches to come

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Originally Posted by Bongaroo

I've heard of and seen plenty. Free beta testers usually cost more to organize than they are worth. Testing for bugs isn't all that exciting and glamorous as I'm sure your aware; I'm sure the cost/benefit and time to finish is better this way.

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As aggrivating as I am about having to wait, i would much rather wait a few weeks more and get a patch that works right and fixes things. I have had to many expirences with games when a company releases a patch and it ends up screwing something else up *cough* paradox *cough*.