Will units be balanced out for next version?

Just playing through different faction it become obvious that some units are seriously unbalanced.

With some levy spear man units having greater charge bonus (4) than some seleucid elite spear units (1).

Also Eastern slingers having 9 melee attack whilst having only 3 range attack :inquisitive:

Also numerous inconsistancies throughout units describes as "Having no armour" yet have 1-3 points in there armour stat :oops:

Aside from that this is afantastic mod keep up the great work EB team :2thumbsup:

Those thracian "fanatic" or whatever their name is are historicaly tough, difficult warriors to slay.:2cents:

Having pants and/or a shirt on apparently does qualify you for a point or two or armour, AFAIK. Hats were worth an extra one IIRC. If the unit has shields and good helmets - like the Gaesatae nekkid dudes - then that alone qualifies them for a decent rating.

Although I'd rather the "has pants on" armour points were applied equally across the board. Assorted barbarians get it, but various Easterners in their trousers and thick kaftans to keep the inland winter cold away don't...:inquisitive:

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Also Eastern slingers having 9 melee attack whilst having only 3 range attack

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There's good reasons why most EB missile troops have low base attack values at range; doubly so for the AP slings (the best ones - the Balearics - top at 4...). Although I'm not entirely convinced those of the assorted horse-archers are entirely "on par" with their infantry colleagues. Anyway, 9 is a pretty standard EB attack value for guys with daggers - indeed bit on the low side. It is a very fast and handy weapon after all. Alas, it also has a rock-bottom 0.04 lethality value, to the 0.1 standard short swords get...

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With some levy spear man units having greater charge bonus (4) than some seleucid elite spear units (1).

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you mean Phalanx units, which have a charge Bous of one for their Sarrissa (which can't charge in Phalanx mode) and a higher cahrge Bonus for theri sword, which isn't displayed.

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Also Eastern slingers having 9 melee attack whilst having only 3 range attack

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don't know

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Also numerous inconsistancies throughout units describes as "Having no armour" yet have 1-3 points in there armour stat

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Greaves and helmets are also counted as amour in the stats, the description "no amour" means no body amour like linothorax or mail.

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Aside from that this is afantastic mod keep up the great work EB team

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thx

Attack factor is only 1/3 of how effective an attack is, lethality and attack rate are the other portions and missiles weapons have to have a lethality of 1, the game doesn't recognize the other values, so they have to have low attack factor.

Shirts+Hats give 1 armour.

Most slinger's missile attack is AP, so it's better then it looks. And dagger guys do have high meele attack, but super low lethality.

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Originally Posted by Conan

Just playing through different faction it become obvious that some units are seriously unbalanced.

With some levy spear man units having greater charge bonus (4) than some seleucid elite spear units (1).

Also Eastern slingers having 9 melee attack whilst having only 3 range attack :inquisitive:

Also numerous inconsistancies throughout units describes as "Having no armour" yet have 1-3 points in there armour stat :oops:

Aside from that this is afantastic mod keep up the great work EB team :2thumbsup:

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hi Conan, i exort you to look at this thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80557

there are the real stats of the units, not the stats shown in the RTW GUI stat Tab.
Also regarding Slingers, they are Elite Units in EB, Try to use 3/4 of them and you will see even how that 1 (and i say 1) attack of roman Accensi can be deadly.... if you look at that thread you can understand how some units have other strong points of that shown in the in game Gui, the Phalangitai have +2 charge bonus as secondary weapon, and other units, have an hidden AP bonus not shown in the GUI.
EB Battles are great, and if you "know" the units you are managing, you can perform some very nice tactical manoeuvres.

For Example the Babylonian Spearmen have an AP for the club they carry as secondary weapon, so if they are not defending a position in guard mode, you can switch on "club mode" (pressing ALT + Right Button) and changing them in an awesome assault unit!

Same for cavalry, when in melee, switch on secondary weapon, you will see how they become effective against skirmichers and even heavy infantry some times...

salut!

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Originally Posted by Conan

Just playing through different faction it become obvious that some units are seriously unbalanced.

With some levy spear man units having greater charge bonus (4) than some seleucid elite spear units (1).

Also Eastern slingers having 9 melee attack whilst having only 3 range attack :inquisitive:

Also numerous inconsistancies throughout units describes as "Having no armour" yet have 1-3 points in there armour stat :oops:

Aside from that this is afantastic mod keep up the great work EB team :2thumbsup:

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Despite these points, I find the battles and units play out well, with a decent sense of general all round balance.

Yeah, don't look too much at the stats. With proper conditions any unit can beat any unit so it is all about tactics.

Sadly, I haven't mastered tactics up to the level where I could beat a unit of Thorakitai Argyraspidai with my unit of Pantodapoi... yet? :grin:

I don't think anything short of a Post Marian Roman Cohort stands a decent chance of killing those guys 1 vs 1...

Hi all
What do u think about stats of romanii allied swordsmen (Milites Samnitici versus Pedites exraordinares)? Costs/stats are strange... low cost uberpanzers versus very high cost general swordsman

I like the balance overall -- best I've seen in any mod, IMHO. Only thing I generally quibble with is that cavalry units actually get hung up on skirmishers. Maybe it's just me, but a squad of hippeis should carve through akontistai in a matter of seconds, rather than taking 20 percent casualties in a 2-3 minute melee.

Of course, I'm not sure if it's possible to do a "negative bonus against cavalry" characteristic.

I agree that the cost of Pedites extraordinarii should be lowered. Also, I think Ploybian Princeps defense skill should be higher. They were more experienced than the Hastati it has no logic that they should have less defense skill...


Cheers...

I've always been curious why both(Hastati and Principles) units' stats were vitually the same except for the bonus of the latter having a spear and a extra armour point.

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Originally Posted by Redigo

I like the balance overall -- best I've seen in any mod, IMHO. Only thing I generally quibble with is that cavalry units actually get hung up on skirmishers. Maybe it's just me, but a squad of hippeis should carve through akontistai in a matter of seconds, rather than taking 20 percent casualties in a 2-3 minute melee.

Of course, I'm not sure if it's possible to do a "negative bonus against cavalry" characteristic.

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Umm when you charge pay attention to the death count on the target unit. As soon as the charge hits they willl die like flies...then after 2 or 3 seconds it will slow down and stop. PULL OUT your cavalry as SOON as you see they have stop dying, make enough room for another charge and ..rinse repeat...best way to optimize the charge bonus and minimize yous losses. Very effective if you charge from the back.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I've always been curious why both(Hastati and Principles) units' stats were vitually the same except for the bonus of the latter having a spear and a extra armour point.

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Higher morale and mass.

Yes, but still, it is still a little sparse between two units. I mean, they even cost pretty much cost within 200 mnai of each other. One would think that a veteran would not only be battle hardened (moral) but also know a few tricks to survive (defense) or gain the upper hand (attack) through experience. If mass is the quantified value of what the soldier's experience is, then well, it doesn't seem adequate.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Yes, but still, it is still a little sparse between two units. I mean, they even cost pretty much cost within 200 mnai of each other. One would think that a veteran would not only be battle hardened (moral) but also know a few tricks to survive (defense) or gain the upper hand (attack) through experience. If mass is the quantified value of what the soldier's experience is, then well, it doesn't seem adequate.

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They are not veterans in the same way that evocata are veterans. principes are just older and better equipped versions of the hastati, there is no indication that you have to be of a certain level of training or experiance to be a principes - its a social thing, not a warrior thing.

Foot

Oh, okay.