An example of AI passivity *gasp!* in diplomacy

After reading through all these threads recently where thr topic has been brought up about the AIs rather hardheaded unwillingness to have anything other than a "Do or Die" approach, I felt like sharing my most recent experience with AI Diplomacy, mainly for the fact that its not being bugger-all hardheaded and, in fact, may be acting unreasonably nice.
So here's the SitRep: in my 0.81a Romani campaign, the forces of Epeiros attacked Patavium in 208 BC or so (can't remember the exact date). It was a piddling attack that I drove away easily, but they sent roughly 3 full stacks after Patavium and Iuovovetta (sp? the one N and a little W above the Alps), which I took from them almost imediately. After defeating those on the walls and at a bridge they actually send a diplomat and sue for peace, asking for the taken town back. Naturally I had no intention of doing so I figured the war would go on, but lo and behold they actually accepted a peace, and paid me tribute and gave me map info to boot! Thus ended the First Romani-Epeirotic War. Looking at the map info I knew they would attack again soon, being the 3rd largest faction, so I decided to sow unrest with spies and build some armies to invade Ambrakia and their homeland provinces (they had all of Greece except Spata by this point) while simultaneously marching on their Illyrian and lower Germanic holdings.
It worked, amazingly so. It was like tearing into the unprotected belly of the beast. Outside of Segesta there were no heavily defended cities. After taking the Illyrian coast plus Ambrakia and the other starting Epeirotic city, they sued for peace again, with the same demand (give back recently acquired territories). I again refused, and this time I thought I'd ask for Thermon, which I was sieging at the moment. I offered 10k as a token gesture as well. Aaaand...it worked! A first! The Second Epeirotic War had ended in a stunning victory. And I think I know why: my spies and the stupidity of the AI in keeping pop happiness up. Almost every turn they had a territory revolt to either the Sweboz or Aedui and probably about half their military strength was tied up trying to take back the territories. And another sizable chunk was marching on the Sauromatae/Bosphoran region, which left precious little to deal with me.
But here's the oddest part: since then, over the past few years, I've had on-again, off-again border wars with Epeiros and its ended the same way every time: they propose peace and demand territories, I counter with peace and demand territories that I generally am currently siegeing and give them a token amount of money, they accept. I think I'm about to start the 6th or 7th iteration of this and I should border the Pontus Exuines when all is said and done. In between border wars I occasionally buy towns from Epeiros, usually very cheaply (never paid more than 20k for one). I don't know how to feel. I'd gotten so used to the ultra-war AI that this is almost throwing me for a loop :laugh4:. Just thought I'd share since i never thought I'd see the day where the AI would actually accept anything less than Total War.
PS: I LOVE getting town in trade, since I get nice batched of freely recruited units! 4 of the 6 stacks I have wandering around on the Epeirotic front are nothing but mercs, and some pretty good ones too.

The AI is silly like that sometimes, usually when they don't border you or you beat them down hard.

Regarding the spy strategy: I have never, ever, had a spy survive an attempt to infiltrate an enemy city. But I'll guess I'll give it a try in the 3rd Romani-Macedonian war.

rgds/EoE

(Oh, and the Sweboz are probably restless again)

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Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

...Patavium and Iuovovetta (sp? the one N and a little W above the Alps), ...

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a pain in the arse I know :beam:

I always construct huge spy networks. I think they're the most interesting part in the campaign map. I always see armies marching on my citadels and armies miles before... I'm talking about dispatching about 5-10 spies in an area like the Aegean.
Far more interesting than sending your spies to 'clear the fog of war' in Baktria if enemies are threatening you in Makedonia. All my faction leaders up to today are masters of espionage and had the what's-it's-name ancillary

God I can't wait to get home and try this on the germanic horde. The situation just stabilized; their inevitable war has kicked off with the Averni, inevitable because the Averni have almost completely wiped out the Aeudi (who, defying reason, still will not come to terms with me, I want them as a buffer state at mediolanium). Now i'm massing my legions and preparing something similar that I did to deal with the epirots. Old Pyrrus was getting a little to big for his britches, subjegating the entire Greek pennisula (not that I care about the Greeks) to the south and pushing pretty far north in the Balkans. I took my best general and best Legion with my best Greek and Italic aux troops and cut a swath of death through their homelands, annexing the Illyrian coast and mines in the process. I went all the way through their homeland, East through Macedon, South through Thessaly, Athens, Corith, Thermon and Sparta (yes, they had conquered all of this), exterminated everything and handed it over to the Greeks. The situation did, and still is, working perfectly and playing right into my hands; the weakened Epirots had not the resources to deal with me, having a huge problem with the new Koinon I created (not entirely A-historical, eh!?! :egypt:). The Greeks are now a problem for everybody, spilling over from Rhodos into Asia Minor and contending with Selucus and the remnants of the Maks (still alive, somehow). The Epirots are placated but strong enough to be a player. I share an uncomfortable border with the powerful Greek state, with a large, ever-shrinking garrison there (being directed north to Germania).
So now my northern provinces are just about secure, I need to stabilize the Germans :hmg: and donate their provinces to the starving Aeudi. The Averni are getting out of control, duking it out with the Luso's. A strong puppet Aeudi annexed out of Germania should balance out the situation nicely. What i'm really worried about is all my old family members dying, i'm afraid my fringe properties, especially the valuable Illyrian ones, are only kept in line by their obsene influence. I had to relinquish Carthage because Cotta died, and there was no way I could hold it without him, plus I needed all my troops heading north, but I did get 40k by leveling the city, not to mention a few others on the north African coast to placate them.

Ah.. gasp.. I love this friggin' game. I look forward to, for the first time since VINILLA, getting to the Marian reforms (not even in my RTR days :thumbsdown:).

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

The AI is silly like that sometimes, usually when they don't border you or you beat them down hard.

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Heh that's the thing though. While I beat them down the 3 stacks I killed hardly qualified as total beatdown, since I know they have/had at least 3 times that wandering around their vast turf. And then there is their garrisons, which is an unknown amount more. Plus each time I pulled the stunt we kept sharing borders. In fact, right now they are one of the longest borders I have (see the 0.8x AI Progression thread for screenie) but after taking their homeland provinces they have generally been passive. But c'est la vie; I shall enjoy my time of stability while I can and continue to meddle in Baltic affairs :laugh4:.

Aeudi was fighting Averni and losing, so I gave them 400,000 money through the money code. 5-10 turns later, they were still losing, so I decided to turn on them - I finished them off and give their provinces to Averni. (might as well, since I plan to fight Averni's Vercingetrex after the Marian reforms)

Next step, Carthage & Casse both haven't conquered a single province yet, so I'm giving them 1 mil each to boost their economy. I plan to send in my post Marian cohorts to conquer Brittany. (recreate the British insurrection against Rome)

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Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

Heh that's the thing though. While I beat them down the 3 stacks I killed hardly qualified as total beatdown, since I know they have/had at least 3 times that wandering around their vast turf. And then there is their garrisons, which is an unknown amount more. Plus each time I pulled the stunt we kept sharing borders. In fact, right now they are one of the longest borders I have (see the 0.8x AI Progression thread for screenie) but after taking their homeland provinces they have generally been passive. But c'est la vie; I shall enjoy my time of stability while I can and continue to meddle in Baltic affairs :laugh4:.

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Well, I said usually. I have experienced this sort of thing with my love/hate relationship with the balkans. They attack me with a pittaful stack, I kill them. I conquer them, they ask for ceasefire. I give it to them. The conclusion I've come to is to /ignore /kickban them and generally ignore them period.

It would have been over by now if the leader of the 6th legion hadn't been assassinated. Now I'm fighting a 4 front war instead of partying in Byzanton...

The thing is that EVERY western Greek faction keeps doing this.