The Peasants are Revolting

I am currently in the latter reaches of my Koinon Hellenon campaign. Anyone who has glanced at their victory conditions will notice that you have to make an awful lot of enemies in order to win.

A war of attrition rages around Tarsus with the Ptolomaics, while in the west I have finished grabbing the Carthaginian islands and am contemplating taking on the Romani (for southern Italia) and the Aedui (for Massilia and coastal Iberia).

I have faced the best the civilised world could throw at me, and beaten it.

• I have laughed at Phyrrus's elephants, and turned them into pin-cushions.
• I have faced hugh phalanxes, and turned them into neat rows of corpses with flanking attacks (Traditional Hoplites rule!).
• I have faced heavy cavalry from hell, and they have died on my spears.
• I have faced armoured machine-gun arrow firing horse-archer bodyguards, and overwhelmed them with peltasts (they were probably too busy looking at all my dead slingers).

With the Maks, Epirotes, Pontics and Getai all exterminated, you would think that I was ready for the final big push - but no, there is a thorn in my side and its name is Kotais.

My Greek fighting system has reigned supreme all over the Mediterranean (Traditional Hoplites, Peltasts, Slingers, Cretans - no Cavalry). Even the sneaky Easterners and savage nomads only required extra slingers and peltasts before they too went down under the greek steam-roller.

But now my system has broken down. Kotais was fairly easily captured - the last regular Hayasdin army is now pushing up daisies around the stockade. Unrest is so high that I have been unable to keep Kotais more than 2 turns.

There is actually a dip in my progress graph! (2 stacks lost to date). There is also a pesky Hayasdin spy to put the last nail in the unrest coffin (just can't seem to catch him).

My first expulsion killed the general, and a tiny Hayasdin stack attacked my men as they were being expelled, meaning they immediately got a giant kick up the rear from the new stack from the town. No one survived.

I tried extermination, I tried selling all those smelly easterner buildings, but the result is always the same. I get expelled from Kotais, and a full stack of Sparabara with gold upgrades appears. These guys die quite quickly under missile fire - but in melee they are veritable supermen. Even when I manage to rout some of them (ganging up 3 on 1, front and both flanks) they just trot back a hundred yards, reform and pile straight back in.

I think I am going to need to get my best traited general, another couple of full stacks and exterminate the whole faction before I can hold Kotais more than 6 months.

Has anyone else had trouble with Kotais? If this goes on much longer, I will have to move my Capital there!

PS. I think there be a new trait for this situation "Humbled by Sparabara" - it should bring a big influence penalty as the holder will never again be able to show his face in public.
:clown:

Just out of curiosity, how far is your capital from Kotais?

@The Errant

My empire is currently ruled from Chalcis-by-the-sea (nice pier, and donkey-rides available all-year-round).

I was reluctant to move it because I am finding it difficult to hold on the Sardinia, there is a recruitment hole there for the KH, so I can't keep the population in check.

Anyway, why should a bunch of damn peasants force me to go down-market!

I don't know I never had problems with rebellions. What I usually do when I conquer something is
exterminate or enslave depending on size,
destroy government and military buildings
and always have some akontistai plus a general ready.

next turn remove my fieldarmy (except if I want the town to be a part of my borderdefence) move in a fullstack of akontistai plus general. by that time the provisional government is finished. then i build the buildings which:

a)give highest order bonus
b)are quickest to build
c)if they are REALLY rebelious a type 4 gov
d)if possible try to upgrade order/happyness buildings first.

worked in all my 5 campaigns in EB so far and I always play on VH.

@L.C.Cinna

Current population of Kotais: 400. Two units is sufficient to get 80% garrison, but unrest is around the 60-80% mark when I move in.

Still got culture penalty (some eastern buildings cannot be destroyed), and I may have been over-zealous destroying the filthy easterner temple (whoops).

:idea2: Looks like I need a summer palace in Sinope, while I build the brainwashing... sorry, I mean temple... facility and establish some government reforms.

Your problem is the location of your capital I think. Have you checked the settlement details scroll of Kotais. My guess is that you have something in excess of 40 % minimum distance from capital penalty. Add to that the culture penalty and the general unrest factors.

Keeping Kotais will become a nightmare. It's allways like this with far flung empires. Someone posted that they had conqured most of Africa and Europe in a Carthage campaign but were having troubles keeping some of their most far flung holdings in check. He/She wanted to go conquering in India but the game mechanics simply wouldn't allow it due to the distance and culture penalties.

I had the same problem in my Sabyn campaign when i conquered Hierosolyma and Sidon. They kept rebelling because my capital was still Maryab in southern Arabia. When I moved it to Dumatha I could keep the two cities in check but had to increase the garrisons in southern Egypt and Arabia due to the distance to capital penalties.

The only way to keep a large empire from falling apart is to make the capital the most central city in that empire. Basically equally long distances everywhere. Add happiness buildings and strong garrison you may just be able to keep the most far flung provinces to obtain your victory conditions. The fringes of your empire will be restless though. It's game mechanics, pure and simple. Propably hardcoded to boot.

Increase the size of the garrison and find a good governor or several to keep order. That and move your capital closer. Add plenty of happiness buildings. High level order increasing temples are best. Garrisons second, and game fields last. Apart from that don't have any other advise.

Hope this helps.

@The Errant

Joking aside, yes of course my problem is mostly distance-to-capital, but I am OK on public order in the Crimea (Hellenic culture there) so it is culture-difference and unrest that have put Kotais just beyond my reach.

I must admit I don't entirely understand what makes up the culture difference figure. I know it is mostly buildings (I destroyed every building I could - even the temple and the spice road), so the remaining culture difference may be un-destroyable buildings, but I am wondering if the region itself has an effect (regions have a founding faction - to which they go over to if they rebel).

I also don't understand what makes up the unrest figure. Some of it must be due to the capture of the settlement, because it drops off next turn. I always assumed the remainder was the presence of enemies or rebels in the province.

Please can anyone who has info on any of the above let me know, or give me a link.
:2thumbsup:

PS. Yet another thing I am vague on is the rebellion process itself. Is it probability-based or does it happen reliably on a public-order threshold value?

With 75% or higher happiness your settlement will never rebel. Lower figures means higher likelihood of riot/revolt: 100% minus happiness.

Perhaps a charismatic&influential leader + couple of spies could help?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Juvenal

@The Errant

I must admit I don't entirely understand what makes up the culture difference figure. I know it is mostly buildings (I destroyed every building I could - even the temple and the spice road), so the remaining culture difference may be un-destroyable buildings, but I am wondering if the region itself has an effect (regions have a founding faction - to which they go over to if they rebel).

I also don't understand what makes up the unrest figure. Some of it must be due to the capture of the settlement, because it drops off next turn. I always assumed the remainder was the presence of enemies or rebels in the province.

Please can anyone who has info on any of the above let me know, or give me a link.
:2thumbsup:

PS. Yet another thing I am vague on is the rebellion process itself. Is it probability-based or does it happen reliably on a public-order threshold value?

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Well, the government building alone (you cannot destroy it) gives you around 30% culture penalty. Plus there may have been some spies in the conquered city. The unrest goes down in time as you assimilate the region, but there are some regions where there will always be some unrest (like Syracuse, Taras) no matter what you do.

Destroy all MICs in that city, gov't buildings and leave that city alone. (don't put a garrison or governor)

It will always be rioting but it should not rebel. (this always worked in .74 and .80, it ?SHOULD? work in .81)

No, that was probably fixed in the latest updates.

Have you destroyed all buildings related to another culture there?

Thanks for the responses, especially cezarip (30% unrest until I upgrade the governor's house - ouch!)

@Geoffrey S

I have exterminated the population down to 400 and destroyed all destroyable buildings. This leaves the governor's house, a granary, the stockade and something else - roads I think.

This is the first time in all my years of RTW that I couldn't control a fully-exterminated settlement (except Themiskaya which is a special case), so I was wondering if there was anything special about Kotais.

Looks like my guys in Sicilia will have to put on their riot shields while I move my capital east long enough to build a government and temple in Kotais.

Also, I will expunge Hayasdan to get rid of that damn spy and the Sparabara from Hell. :skull:

I believe culture penalty has something to do with the percentage of buildings in a city that are of another culture. So when you demolish everything that's not indestructable, not very much will happen as you'll still have 100% foreign buildings. But if you then build some of your own (cheap) buildings, the culture penalty should decrease as the ratio of buildings of your culture vs other cultures becomes better.

High degrees of unrest are often caused by enemy spies in your city. Send a spy there yourself, or even more, so the enemy spy could be detected in a few turns. Than have an assassin at hand. Other good things are a proper government, a full-stack garrison, an "extremely happy people" governor, a minus-growth for the populace and a good temple.