Can you strip Generals of their titles?

Hi guys,
I'm sorry to be an irritating pest, again, yet I have just made a terrible mistake in my English campaign, as I knew I would, I am an idiot after all! I accidently gave the title of "The Earl of Wessex" to a six loyalty general who didn't really need it - I meant to give it to a one loyalty general, with five stars, to stop him from wanting my king's blood - I, unfortuantely, lacked spies to execute for treason or assasins to kill him with. So, to save me from civil war may I ask you expert veterans, is it possible to stip a general of his titles and give them to somebody else? Thanks very much in advance guys, cheers!

Sure can. Drop an emissary on the general whose titles you want to strip. :2thumbsup:

Wow, that was fast! Thanks very much :bow:

This rises another question: when you strip a general of his title, will he go back to his old stats, or will he loose a bit mor of loyalty?

I'm not sure how often it happens, but the general can develop bad traits, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot

Hi guys,
I'm sorry to be an irritating pest, again, yet I have just made a terrible mistake in my English campaign, as I knew I would, I am an idiot after all! I accidently gave the title of "The Earl of Wessex" to a six loyalty general who didn't really need it - I meant to give it to a one loyalty general, with five stars, to stop him from wanting my king's blood - I, unfortuantely, lacked spies to execute for treason or assasins to kill him with. So, to save me from civil war may I ask you expert veterans, is it possible to stip a general of his titles and give them to somebody else? Thanks very much in advance guys, cheers!

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Off course, if you want to get rid of that particular general, you also might consider to send him on a suicide mission, let the enemy kill him in an unfair battle... :devil:

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.

Unless you really want to keep your original "false" Earl of Wessex around for some other reason (like maybe he's a v7 teched up royal knight or something), you can always disband the unit. Quick easy and effective - you don't have to wait til next year as you do when you set an emissary on to him....

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.

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5 star bah!! the only commander of my army need to be 7+ star

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phil

I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king.

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Would keeping him next to a prince help as well as him being under the leadership of the king? Unfortunately, my King is at home in London, yet the General is in the South of France with a Prince in the neighbouring province. Would that keep him loyal? Thanks!

Assigning and stripping of titles by an emissary does decrease loyalty to a lower value than it was before the title was betowed.

This can be exploited when you're orchestrating a civil war to get rid of a particularly bad royal line. You can repeatedly assign and remove a title from very good general to reduce his loyalty to make sure he's on the rebel side when the civil war erupts.

Keeping a general stacked with a faction heir makes no difference to his loyalty. Stacking him with the faction leader will slowly increase his loyalty over time and prevent him from leading a civil war.

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot

Would keeping him next to a prince help as well as him being under the leadership of the king? Unfortunately, my King is at home in London, yet the General is in the South of France with a Prince in the neighbouring province. Would that keep him loyal? Thanks!

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No, the loyalty of a stack is always that of the leader (rightclick of the stack and you´re shown the leader´s stats), that´s why you´ll want loyal men in command. Having a maximum-loyalty, ten-star general in a province next to a full stack led by a zero-loyalty commander will not prevent the stack in question from rebelling!
It also doesn´t matter if all units but the leader have a maximum loyalty, it´s the leader that matters.

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Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

Off course, if you want to get rid of that particular general, you also might consider to send him on a suicide mission, let the enemy kill him in an unfair battle... :devil:

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Well, this is definitely another way! But it will cost you one defeat in battle... You are a cruel king ideed, Andres! :yes:

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

If you strip a general of his title(s) he will lose loyalty. So the general will be less loyal than before he got the title(s).

I always give titles in function of economy (acumen and those skulls) as I don't steamroll. I keep my unloyal captains under a loyal general or my king. But I see why you would want touse your 5 star general as a leader of an army. I'm not that sure but I think Wessex only gives 1 shield of loyalty so I don't know if you can trust a 2 shield general that much more.

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Actually used to pay attention only to acumen and dread as well. But I finally did pay attention to loyalty as well. I don't use the titles to raise a good general's loyalty. Say if I have à 3 loyalty pretty good unit leader, I might consider give a title. But I never give a province to someone under 4 acumen, except if he has 3+ in dread, and the province is a "hard on loyalty" one.

For your information, just have an aggressive foreign policy and invade your enemies and gain influence. When you have 9 influence, everybody under you will be fully loyal, including previously disloyal generals.

I'm playing with the Byzantines. Emperor Alexius II is the leader. He has full influence, so I can't assign lesser titles (only gives loyalty) because that would be a waste.

Even generals that I pay to join my side have full, or almost full the first year they join.

No province title is ever 'a waste', in my opinion.

A province without a governor has even less income than if you gave the title to a general with zero feathers! (Believe it or not).

The Byz tend to make money by the bucket-load, so you can probably carry on as you are doing, in that campaign, and not worry about the finances.

Some other factions are forever struggling for decent income and you'd have a really hard time if you maintained this policy.

:2cents:


P.S. You can actually have the province info parchment open on the screen at the moment you drop the title onto the general, so it is possible to see the change in income as it happens. You may even be able to spot a slight change in the happiness rating at the same time.

I have a certain system for assigning titles. I tend to first look at the provincial loyalty (happiness) factor, and will search through my stacks for a very high dread general - his acumen will be of lesser importance - if I'm dealing with a rebellious province quite a distance away from my faction's epicentre and faction leader. The secondary consideration will be the religious factor. I will check the province's religion, and if the percentage of my own faction's religion is very low in that province (i.e. they are not in the majority) I will assign a general who also has very low piety, to avoid upsetting the locals. If the province in question is the same religion as my faction or has a percentage of around 60% or more of my faction's religion I will assign a medium to high piety, high dread general. I will then transfer a high valour spy, some of my priests and a low cost garrison into the province and start building a brothel, church/mosque, town watch, watch towers, (and border fort - though I don't build them). Once the province has been converted and pacified I will strip the title from the governor and give it to someone more suitable. He will then be sent to govern another troublesome province - thus not really affecting his loyalty too much. It helps to have a few generals like that at hand for such purposes.

:bow:

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.

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That may be the case. But you can have a 99% Christian Portugal, installing a high dread governor would help in increasing happiness there, but if he is also low piety that could counter it somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.

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A strong faction with a strong faction leader tends to produce better generals, also higher class elite units tend to be better generals.

Ways to gain dread: Scare people.

Put your General as Governor of a provence you allow to rebel regularly, and execute the rebels you capture. He'll develope some wonderful vices. (If you have no governor assigned, it tends to go to your king).

When you capture enemies, execute them during battle. You don't have to wait till the end when you havetaken that highly valuable king or prince hostage, you can get BUTCHER from just a few bodies.


Also, loyalty is affected by many things. For instance Princesses. Alot of people use their daughters to keep generals loyal after stripping their titles. As well, a good building policy gives loyalty virtues.



I don't believe one's religious level affects zeal, only the happiness of the provence. There are virtues, such as zealot, true zealot, etc. that increase the zeal level. As well, inquisitors raise zeal a percent or so each time they pass through the provence. France and Italy are typically the high zeal factions in the game as well, due to region and events in the game.

As far as loyalty goes, it helps to win battles as well. And if a king is weak, the leadership doesn't like him, and his brother is stronger, you may want to send your king to his death. This might raise the loyalty of your Generalship.

Ya Dig.:scastle3:

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Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910

When you capture enemies, execute them during battle. You don't have to wait till the end when you havetaken that highly valuable king or prince hostage, you can get BUTCHER from just a few bodies.

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? IIRC you get the first of the 'butcher' line of traits upon killing more than 1,000 prisoners in combat (not necessarily at once). Everything below that number will result in the not so good 'scant mercy' line of traits; not so good because it lowers morale in the course of time.

Ah yes. My error.

here's a list of V&V and how to possibly achieve them to raise your gen's stats:

V&V

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Originally Posted by Digital

For your information, just have an aggressive foreign policy and invade your enemies and gain influence. When you have 9 influence, everybody under you will be fully loyal, including previously disloyal generals.

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Yes. Of course. I was speaking of those moments when the enemy's armies are dangerous and you can loose a few province! :yes:

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

Doesn't the zeal level also have a say in there? I found high dread generals to be pretty useless as governors of 99% Christian, 99% zeal province. Instead, high (i.e. higher than 7) piety does the job in those cases.

Besides, is it somehow possible to influence the stats regular generals start out with? I never see anyone with a dread rating higher than 3, except for some heroes.

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I haven't run any tests on it but I've seen high dred/low piety generals have almost no effect on loyalty on certain provinces, and low-dread/decent to high piety having a good effect. Zeal and dread are definitely two parameters of the loyalty's calculation.

EDIT: Ah, in Viking campaigns, the Northumbrian foresters tend to have 3 to 5 dread!!! :beam:

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Caravel

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:

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Well I've read someplace that it had an influence, and I had surprises while giving a province to a 2 dread general to see the happines not move at all... I'll try to catch one (and the boats...)

Playing as Byzantium I´ve never had any problems regarding zeal. Most of my generals and governors have 0 piety, the Emperor has usually a lip-service religiousness of 2 or so, but the people hover around 0%-10% loyalty anyway, so it doesn´t matter. In fact, I roleplay to make a point of it and avoid using priests as far as possible (I do build churches/cathedral, for military and financial reasons. I reason this out as being symbols of "the long arm of the Emperor", with suspiciously pro-goverment preachings)

I once started a "godless" Italian campaign, in which I fully intended to lash out at the Papal states as soon as I got strong enough, and to hell with excommunication (I intended to make a POINT of being excommed), but while militarily and economically I was successful, I lost my heir in a fluke and my elder Doge beated out a crusade with minimal casualties, only to die the next year of an illness (What the... he was killing Germans minutes ago and now he´s ill and he dies?!?!)

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Originally Posted by Caravel

I was almost sure that zeal had no bearing on a province's happiness. :shrug:

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I doesn't have. Directly, that is; a high-zeal province needs to be governed by a high-piety general. I read once that the threshold was at 50% zeal: below, dread-heavy governors work better, above, piety does the job. Of course it's a gradual change, but the threshold separates the ranges where one of the two skills is more effective.

Since I get high-piety generals all the time when I'm playing Catholics for some reason (the reason may be that I build many religious buildings which affect my emperor who in turn affects fresh generals...?), I find that maintaing loyalty is much easier than in provinces with extremely low piety - as stated earlier, my generals only seldomly have more than 3 dread. A nice side-effect is that occupying my territory as a pagan or Muslim becomes decidedly more difficult for the invader....then again, central Europe rarely suffers from these incursion.

I'm not entirely sure about the workings of zeal, too. E.g. I still haven't found out how to govern best a religiously mixed province with 70% Christian, 30% pagan and 45% zeal level....probably I ought to stick to Caravel's approach and just assign the title to some high-dread guy.

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Originally Posted by Caerfanan

EDIT: Ah, in Viking campaigns, the Northumbrian foresters tend to have 3 to 5 dread!!!

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Really? Hmmm the Northumbrian king starts out with an astonishingly high dread rating, so that might have an influence....don'T know about his heirs, though. I never played a Northumbrian campaign for longer than 5 turns.

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Originally Posted by The Unknown Guy

Playing as Byzantium I´ve never had any problems regarding zeal.

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That's natural, the only high-zeal area in the game is Catholic Europe, and it too is no longer after 1349. The main effect zeal seems to have besides influencing loyalty seems to be determining the tendency of a Crusade to gain or to lose men while passing/staying in the province.
Not entirely historically correct, one might add - Salah ad-din greatly roused Muslim religious sentiment and united the Saracens on no other than religious grounds in order to repel the Crusaders, but since I've never ever used a Jihad myself, does anyone have a hint how they work? Do they lose men as rapidly as they should, given the extremely low zeal rating of Muslim provinces?

I have noticed that generals with a high piety rating do sometimes seem to have trouble when they govern provinces of opposing religions, particularly if that province has high zeal. However, I've not noticed this happening on a consistent basis, so I remain unconvinced that there's any real connection.

Regardless, my primary criteria for choosing governors (at least as far as keeping provinces in line remains Dread. It's generally a far more effective deterrent to rebellion than Piety (although both is always desired!). :yes:

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

Not entirely historically correct, one might add - Salah ad-din greatly roused Muslim religious sentiment and united the Saracens on no other than religious grounds in order to repel the Crusaders, but since I've never ever used a Jihad myself, does anyone have a hint how they work? Do they lose men as rapidly as they should, given the extremely low zeal rating of Muslim provinces?

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Jihads can (and do) lose troops as they pass through low-zeal provinces, but I can't vouch as to whether they lose men as quickly as Crusades do. However, since my Jihads usually don't have as far to go -- I'm usually retaking land already touching my borders, as opposed to a province on the other side of the map -- the number of men who desert is generally far less than those who leave a Crusade. That said, I still try as much as possible to have Imams preaching in all the provinces along which my Jihad armies will be marching. ~;)