Genrating public unrest with spies

Hello,

In my first M2TW campaign (which I will fail in about 60 turns or so :dizzy2: ) I was attempting to get paris to riot using spies (I am playing england). This was my only option because the pope would not let me attack them, and I couldn't find the papal states with my diplomats!

Somewhere I read that you get 5% of unrest (ie below the line in the settlement overview) for each point of subterfuge.

So I dumped 4-5 spies in paris which each had 7-8 subterfuge. I would see the public order go down to 50-70% expecting the city to burst into revolt the next turn. However, every time I checked (without taking spies out) the public order would go up again to 90+ or so.

I kept trying for 10 turns or so, varying the number of spies, the order in which they enter etc, but never got paris to revolt.

Does anybody know what factors are involved in creating unrest? Does only the highest subterfuge count? Or is my subterfuge countered by subterfuge created by his own spies?

BB

Hi there, What is the size of garrison in Paris ? and has it changed over the last ten turns ?

As far as I could tell garrison has an effect. I don't think enemy spies do anything (except catch your spies and assassins). All you spies count in the total unrest calculation. The more the better but 5-6 elite spies should be enough.

My guess is that the garrison might have been reinforced.

You can try this:

1. Train 6 Assassins to LvL 5-6.
2. Attack and destroy the law buildings in Paris at a time when the garrison is low.
3. Strike with your spies, in the same turn.

Is it the faction capital? I have never gotten the capital to rebel. SadCat :book:

I'm assuming it is the capital.

Yup, it was the capitol, and I had 3 assassins around it destroying all public order buildings.

I finally took it with an army though.

I just destroyed the last french city (so also capital) which was revolting, but I am not sure if my spy did that or not. But it didn't turn rebel (yet).

BB

PO decrease by spies is capped at -50% btw.
Capitals can revolt but its harder to do it because they don't have distance penalties. Plus setting taxes on low and yield a PO of over 200 with a small garrison without a governor there.

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Originally Posted by SadCat

Is it the faction capital? I have never gotten the capital to rebel. SadCat :book:

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I just stopped trying to get capitals to revolt. Focus on another city instead.

gettings a city fairly close to the capital is fairly hard even with top level spies and assasins so don't even bother on capitals

Whilst playing RTW tried the same trick. managed to get a zero rating over several turns and the town still didnt revolt. Was advised in effect the AI will not allow it to happen unless you are at war. On his basis have not bothered in this game. Why dont you just wait x turns normally upwards of five and then take them out.

If the pope has gone walkies ie Rome occupied by sicilly etc he moved to sardinia or corsica. A pointer rhat as soon as you take rome back you will be persuaded to hand it back to him with penalties for non compliance. leave him there he cannot attack you until you finish him off at the end.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

PO decrease by spies is capped at -50% btw.

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Does this apply to player's spy only or to AI players as well? I assume it applied only to human player because I have hard time tried to make the AI cities to revolt even with top spies (9-10 skills) on very lightly garrisoned city and nearly all PO enhancer buildings destroyed by assassin. But I've also seen my cities unrest gone skyrocket from 15% into 80%...

That's a bit unfair, don't you think? :shame:

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Originally Posted by Tran

Does this apply to player's spy only or to AI players as well? I assume it applied only to human player because I have hard time tried to make the AI cities to revolt even with top spies (9-10 skills) on very lightly garrisoned city and nearly all PO enhancer buildings destroyed by assassin. But I've also seen my cities unrest gone skyrocket from 15% into 80%...

That's a bit unfair, don't you think? :shame:

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I've wondered the same...

Often, one AI enters one of my settelement and the unrest skyrockets whereas I sometimes stealthily enter three or more high level spies in an AI settlement without the least consequence...

Moreover, those few times I remember, my cities were better garrisoned than those of the AI...so wtf ? :furious3:

No I rely on my low level assassins to destroy any and all building in those towns...:smash:

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Originally Posted by SadCat

Is it the faction capital? I have never gotten the capital to rebel. SadCat :book:

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I managed to get Constantinople to revolt in my hungarian campaign. I am not entirely sure that it was the capital at the time. But then again why should it not still be as I had only taken sofia and tessalonica..

It may take a while, but it is possible..

I've had no problem having capitals revolt. I caused Rome to revolt on the Pope after enough focused attacks on the public order buildings, and several infiltrated Spies. Regarding how many spies to use, I've only ever seen no more than two spies being effective in providing a PO penalty, but that probably is because of a cap to the penalty. Multiple spies still increase the chance of opening the gates so that atleast makes it worthwhile to use more than 2.

In general it's much easier to make larger cities revolt because of higher potential squalor and the reduced effectiveness of troops garrison bonus.

I've had my own capital revolt on me before, if that makes any difference :laugh4:

hey everyone,

how do you actually get over that sort of unrest? i think im getting like 50%-60% delt to me (by Milan) and cant really get those spies out of my cities with even a lot of mine... so i guess im missing something:dizzy2: ?

i already got to the part where i need to acidentially surround them with troops and have something pass over (hey i aint cheating) :laugh4:
works great with forests!

cheers

Use assasins in conjunction with spies to damage or destroy buidings that relieve squalor and unrest. You might be able to get a capaital to revolt that way. However if a city is being governed by a general with lots of chivalry you may need to take him out as well.