A special Ability I'd Like

I admit it, I LOVE Scotland.

So, I was thinking about specials, and had a fun idea.

The Scots have great pikes, but they're hampered by the lack of maneuverability and the long set up time. Plus they're obvious as hell.

How bout an option, similar to the archer's stake setup, where at the start of the battle you can hide your pikes. As long as you don't move your Highlanders Pike, they appear as standard highlanders. If they're charged, they'll pull their pikes up into position...

Of course this would mean that you'd need other highlanders around for camo...

Cue Braveheart theme here...

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Originally Posted by detroitmechworks

I admit it, I LOVE Scotland.

So, I was thinking about specials, and had a fun idea.

The Scots have great pikes, but they're hampered by the lack of maneuverability and the long set up time. Plus they're obvious as hell.

How bout an option, similar to the archer's stake setup, where at the start of the battle you can hide your pikes. As long as you don't move your Highlanders Pike, they appear as standard highlanders. If they're charged, they'll pull their pikes up into position...

Of course this would mean that you'd need other highlanders around for camo...

Cue Braveheart theme here...

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Bad idea.:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Well that was a stupid post.

WHY is it a bad idea?
Do you dislike the Idea of misdirection?
Do you think it's too unbalancing? (That's easily solved with a cost increase.)
Or would you have preferred lightsabers? (Yeah, that's about the level I'd expect from your recent posts.)

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Originally Posted by detroitmechworks

Well that was a stupid post.

WHY is it a bad idea?
Do you dislike the Idea of misdirection?
Do you think it's too unbalancing? (That's easily solved with a cost increase.)
Or would you have preferred lightsabers? (Yeah, that's about the level I'd expect from your recent posts.)

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Lightsabers for me.

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Originally Posted by detroitmechworks

I admit it, I LOVE Scotland.

So, I was thinking about specials, and had a fun idea.

The Scots have great pikes, but they're hampered by the lack of maneuverability and the long set up time. Plus they're obvious as hell.

How bout an option, similar to the archer's stake setup, where at the start of the battle you can hide your pikes. As long as you don't move your Highlanders Pike, they appear as standard highlanders. If they're charged, they'll pull their pikes up into position...

Of course this would mean that you'd need other highlanders around for camo...

Cue Braveheart theme here...

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From a historical point of view, it's not too "friendly", to say it like that. Plus, for the graphic part, having this would require extra sprites (to view from distance) and extra animations.

For gameplay, it might be an interesting option to explore.

:yes:

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

For gameplay, it might be an interesting option to explore.

:yes:

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I don't think so.:download:

Thanks for the honest appraisal.

Personally I think that this game could use more "subtle" units, but that's just my 2p.

I don't think the opening posters idea is bad at all, it just wouldn't make sense to have it as a purely Scottish ability. Be good if it could also only be used in long grass (to hide the pikes) and give the ability a kind of balance.
I think ideas like this could make the game far more interesting tactically speaking especially if the AI was good at using it. The only tactic I really have to use at the moment is the "pincer".

Good points.

Hmm. Thoughts. Forest terrain would work as well, Imho.

The reasons that I figured scots is that they've got the highlanders who look almost identical, save for the weapons...

You'd need units that looked similar, otherwise, it's pretty obvious. (Maybe that might work to faction advantage... certain factions are better at sneaky tactics than others...)

im still trying to figure out why the instruction manual states twice that pikes can do schiltrom but in the game they only have spearwall and not schiltrom and dont tell me it cant be done because there are enough controls to do it and if anything else they could have a double ability like the trebuchets.

furthermore i see no reason why spearmen should not have schiltrom and shieldwall.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

I think ideas like this could make the game far more interesting tactically speaking especially if the AI was good at using it.

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I guess therein lies the problem... getting the AI to handle it... otherwise it just becomes another feature to help the human kick the AI.

I do not know if it is historically correct. (that doesnt matter too mcuh i guess)

Another cool idea from Braveheart is the fire trap that they did on the battle of Falkork. I would like to place oil during setup and use flaming arrows to catch it on fire. Of course balancing this would be a real pain.

This kind of tactic, while looking cool in a movie, requires you to: 1. select the battlefield beforehand, 2. be in command of the battlefield long enough to prepare it, 3. have some special troops around whose main purpose is to prepare the field (how many scots carry large barrels of petroleum on a regular basis, just to be ready for anything), 4. have the enemy attack in exactly the order and direction you expect, 5. fight an enemy stupid enough not to sense the petroleum fumes / see the pike bundles lying around beforehand.
All in all, not very likely. It might add depth to the game, but it might also just add stuff that doesn't work very well in practice, thus adding a frustrating experience: If there's cool stuff in a game, players like to use it all the time. If it's hard or impractical to use, players will be very much disappointed. E. g., how many of you actually use dead cow ammo for Trebuchets? When I do it, it usually helps as much as it hinders (at most!).

Couldn't the same effect be achieved simply by hiding your pike unit and then placing a conspicuous highlander unit behind it. The enemy charge the obvious target and up pops the pike unit right in front of them.

Ok! it needs two units and the right terrain but then so does your suggestion if the ruse is going to work. Also from a purely real world viewpoint anyone with eyes in the opposing army would have seen a unit carrying pikes arrive on the battlefield and know that there were pikes up there even if they weren't being carried aloft. Another give away would be the lack of shields.

Anyway, as I recall from the demonstration of the shiliton by Mike Loades the big advantage of the Scottish pike was that the units shilitons were mobile not static. Thus the English weren't given the option of choosing whether to attack them or not.

The pikes came for them.

Getting back to the original point, the special ability I'd like to see right across the board is dismountable and remountable cavalry. Just a time delay that allows units to switch from mounted to dismounted mode.

Pikes don't really seem like the kind of things you can just pick up and suddenly make an effective pike hedge. If anything 100 men with 18 feet long poles looks pretty conspicuous on a battlefield.

As far as special abilities go, the ability to dismount and remount cavalry would my choice. Even if it's just during the deployment phase.

Well...'grounded pikes' and 'trailed pikes' would allow a unit to keep their weapons reasonably inconspicuious, but the transition from 'grounded pike' to a 'stand of pikes' has got to take at least 10 seconds and possibly longer as the rear ranks need to lift their weapons over shoulder height and then press forward to close against the ranks in front.

In practice that would allow more than enough time for a controlled cavalry attack to be halted. As I said before the real killing blow identified by Mike Loades was the fact that the Scottish pike stand could move and that meant that the attacking cavalry could be herded and trapped between units.

Hadn't thought of the two unit solution, but it does sound interesting.

Gonna have to try it. Sounds like it'd be fun in multiplayer too. (As long as I don't get another jerk who refuses to allow terrain...)

My only problem with the pikes as is, is how LONG they take to set up. seems like they spend the better part of a game hour fidgeting back and forth, during which time the charge I was setting them up to defend against slaughters them.

As far as dismounting/remounting cavalry, Absolutely.

(And since we're on the subject on what is realistic, I'd love to see the Knights of St. John more in line with their historical "Corsair" role. Yeah it didn't happen much until after the order moved to Rhodes, but as a special unit, Hospitaler ships would be very appropriate for their chapterhouses...)

Ignore Dracula. He is nothing but a troll. I can't believe he hasn't been banned by now.

I have to agree with Furious here. Just as stakes can only be used during the deployment phase, all cavalry that have dismounted versions should have a special ability of dismount/remount during the deployment only. Once you start the battle, they are fixed as either cavalry or infantry. They should, however, be the same number of men, so dismounted knights would be a smaller unit than, say, Armored Swordsmen.

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Originally Posted by detroitmechworks

I admit it, I LOVE Scotland.

So, I was thinking about specials, and had a fun idea.

The Scots have great pikes, but they're hampered by the lack of maneuverability and the long set up time. Plus they're obvious as hell.

How bout an option, similar to the archer's stake setup, where at the start of the battle you can hide your pikes. As long as you don't move your Highlanders Pike, they appear as standard highlanders. If they're charged, they'll pull their pikes up into position...

Of course this would mean that you'd need other highlanders around for camo...

Cue Braveheart theme here...

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And how many times you expect the enemy to fall for it?

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Originally Posted by Empirate

This kind of tactic, while looking cool in a movie, requires you to: 1. select the battlefield beforehand, 2. be in command of the battlefield long enough to prepare it, 3. have some special troops around whose main purpose is to prepare the field (how many scots carry large barrels of petroleum on a regular basis, just to be ready for anything), 4. have the enemy attack in exactly the order and direction you expect, 5. fight an enemy stupid enough not to sense the petroleum fumes / see the pike bundles lying around beforehand.
All in all, not very likely. It might add depth to the game, but it might also just add stuff that doesn't work very well in practice, thus adding a frustrating experience: If there's cool stuff in a game, players like to use it all the time. If it's hard or impractical to use, players will be very much disappointed. E. g., how many of you actually use dead cow ammo for Trebuchets? When I do it, it usually helps as much as it hinders (at most!).

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First, it was just an idea but you could only use it on defence. Even if you see the fumes and everything, you still have to walk around it therefore hindering a way of attack. This is one thing that is JUST AN IDEA, I don't care if its ever implemented into the game nor do I think it should be.

Oh, I use dead cows all the time. I usually have Trebechets that are pretty good shots and I shoot a few when on defence, you really can't use it on offence since you will walk through it as well. You just fire a few, if you run out of ammo you shot too many of them.