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With the Scottish parliament's election around the corner, do you think that Scotland will secede from the Union if the Scottish National Party gains a majority?
Also, if that happens, what do you think the implications on the rest of the UK would be?
Can I just sit back and await the whinefest? :juggle2:
[Will post something considered when not busy.]
Refreshing to see the disparaging comments come out so soon though;
here was I thinking it'd be down to IA to lead the way.
I don't know. I do know that the entire rest of Europe, from the boreal tip of Finland to the sunkissed Algarve, will roar with laughter and ridicule for weeks on end. Airliners will have to be rerouted because of hilarity-waves and other vibrations above major European cities..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
I don't care about Scotland, I just want Australia to scede from the Commonwealth...
I can't see Scotland succeeding as a soverign nation after so long under British rule.
It has no reason to leave, and probably wouldn't succeed if it did...
Under British rule? :inquisitive:
It's mindsets such as this that has brought us to the point of the break up of the Union.
I fear that the Scots will vote for the SNP and their odious leader Salmond. It would be a disaster for Scotland and would hand us over to the EU piecemeal.
This will be Blairs legacy. A breakup of the Union, the regionalisation of England, a Welsh and Ulster hive off. The UK is like a big cake. Too big to be eaten in one sitting, so slice it up and hey presto....:wall:
Well done Tony. History will surely judge you more harshly than I ever could.
Forgive my mindset - I'm looking in from one of the 'colonies' and see things slightly differently :grin2:
It probably was a bad turn of phrase in these circumstances
I'll let you off, this time. :laugh4: :bow:
Think of it like this. Western Australia decides to leave the federation. Now, how would you feel?
Hmmm....I suppose they do bring in some money....
:grin2:
Ya know, I do see how it could be beneficial for Scotland to leave to the Union. Especially if they get to hold onto the North Sea Oil Platforms. But, its risky... and now they won't have a fall back if times get tough. I do suppose though, that Scotland can somehow Reinvent itself through Investment Banking and the like, where Restrictions would be similar to those in Switzerland. I do however see this as bad tidings for the rest of the UK, if Scotland departs whose to stop Wales, and North Ireland to assume that they no longer have an obligation to uphold the State of the Union, Each to horde what little scraps they have as individuals. Of course, an Independent Ulster would also do much to inflame Ireland again.
Think on the bright side CA, Australia gets to compete in the Commonwealth Games and thrash everyone else!Quote:
Originally Posted by CountArach
If Western Australia left the nation of AUstrlia, it ain't WA anymore! And we Queenslanders would go over and give 'em a whackign in sports!
I'm honestly surprised that the UK would allow a secession...
:focus:
As an Australian of English and Scottish descent, I don't want the Union to be broken. If Scotland goes, then Wales, Ulster, and at a pinch(unlikely, but nothing's impossible) Cornwall will demand independence.
I can understand how it's easy to stir Scottish nationalism up, but really, leaving the Union would kill England.
Well, ever since they created the Scottish parliament(which was a stupid move) they can't stop it. The SNP, if they have a majority in the Scottish parliament, will simply hold a referendum and if more than 50% votes in favour, then Scotland!Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
Despite all the appearances of being under the Blair jackboot for the last decade, the UK is still a democracy. If theQuote:
Originally Posted by sapi
jocksScots decide to withdraw from the Union, there's not much the rest of the country can do about it.
Anyway here's a link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...nd/default.stm
Thanks for that mate - I've only been reading the BBC international edition, hence my confusion :grin2:
I really don't understand this though.
Democracy is (and I don't want to OT this, btw) but a tool to an end - getting a government into power.
Once it's there, it should act in the intersts of the people, even when this clashes with the wishes of the people.
Scottish independance would be devestating to both the Union and Scotland itself; as such I can't see how anybody could even consider passing the bill or allowing it to continue if the referendum succeeds...
The fact that we have no real economy and rely entirely on English money? We'd be bankrupt within a few months if we became independant.Quote:
f Scotland departs whose to stop Wales
Whoa, wait. Since when was the UK a democracy? Someone kill the entire royal family? Republic republic!Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Blair jackboot? :laugh4: You give that man so much credit. Well I imagine that with his pinky finger alone he could thrash the Scots and their smelly cuisine. Viva la Pictland!
One nice thing about the Cold War: I didn't have to constantly buy new maps. I suspect that's all that will really change if they do succeed besides making curling the national sport.
The UK has had democracy for quite a bit now. :laugh4: It's for no reason at all that Westminster is called the Mother of Parliaments. :smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Oh, and about the only people who can't vote is the royal family.
As for Blair, the only credit that I can give him, is that for a sociapath, he hids it well. :sweatdrop:
Being an american I havent gotten much information on this issue in our news, I do listen to the BBC news in the morning on NPR but it hasnt spent much time on it.
I did take a moment to read a few articles but I dont see how this would be advantagous to Scotland save for becoming independant. Hows it playing in Europe? I guess the better question is what are the advantages other then nationalism?
Im not being sarcastic here, I have been to the UK once and wont profess to know the cultural nuances between scotland and england, just curious as to whats really at stake here.
Nationalism is an end by itself. It overcomes any rational thinking.Quote:
I guess the better question is what are the advantages other then nationalism?
If these people think they are a nation, and as such, are entitled to have their own independant country, they'll likely not give a crap about the pro and the con of it.
That sounds about right to me, still I was hoping that someone could give a link or a list of what Scotland has to gain by this move, outside of nationalist intrests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
1. Are the separatists monarchists or Republicans? If they successfully secede, will they elect or select a new King or Queen from among themselves, or elsewhere?
2. Will they seek UN recognition?
3. Will their citizen-soldiers have to quit their current units, and re-form new ones? Will the UK military bases, equipment & units currently stationed in Scotland be expelled?
4. Will they seek EU recognition? NATO?
5. Will they join the Commonwealth?
What will happen to the UK flag?
Interesting questions Kukri.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
1. I have no idea. I just found this. http://www.snp.org/independence/ques...d%20of%20state
So no change there then. :whip:
2. Probably.
3. Yup. The SNP has already started making noises about the 'English' navys base at Faslane. It is going to be a messy divorce, if it transpires.
4. Ahh...now this is very interesting. Not only will the Scots have to (re)apply to become a member of the EU, but also England, Wales and Norn Iron will have to as well. The reason is that at the present it is the UK who currently enjoys (groan) membership. No more UK, no more membership.
I would imagine that the way the treaties are worked that this would be the case for NATO as well.
5. They probably will apply to join the Commonwealth. After all they created most of it. :laugh4:
No Union, no flag. :wall:Quote:
What will happen to the UK flag?
Not necessarily. England, with or without Wales & NI would probably be considered the successor state of the UK, just like Russia is considered to be the successor state of the Soviet Union so that treaties with the SU still applied after the breakup.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Scotland would have to rejoin, though. Then the English can veto their application :beam:
Why can't Scotland be the suceesor state? After all it is a Union of equals. You see, problems are already arising. I would be mildly amused if the Scots were to have to apply to join the EU and not England. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
A bit more digging fetched this up...
Quote:
Article 34 of the 1978 Convention on Succession of States in respect of Treaties says:
"Any treaty in force at the date of succession of states [i.e. Independence] in respect of the entire territory of the predecessor state continues in force in respect of each successor state so formed."
An example worth noting is that of Greenland. When Greenland gained more autonomy from Denmark in 1979, it had to negotiate to be allowed out of the EU.
The 1992 Maastricht Treaty has already conferred on Scots the status of European citizens and the EU will have no more reason to reject an independent Scotland than to reject the independent remainder of the UK.
For the past two decades the overwhelming weight of legal and political opinion has stated that an independent Scotland would inherit EU member ship on exactly the same terms as the rest of the UK. The SNP has consulted widely throughout the EU and we are confident that an independent Scotland would not only remain in the EU as a full member, but would be welcome as such.
Emile Noêl, former Secretary General of the European Commission, has said:
"Scottish Independence would create two new member states out of one. They would have equal status with each other and the other 11 states. The remainder of the United Kingdom would not be in a more powerful position than Scotland."
I agree with Adrian, I'm already starting to laugh in anticipation.:2thumbsup: :laugh4:
ohhh....this could be great fun :laugh4:
go on...go on....I´ll be watching...
http://www.techhelpforum.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif
A story has been broken that has Quebec and Scotland secretly meeting in Israel to negotiate the forming of the Forlon Commonwealth.
Something about them symbolicly trying to restablish colonies in Panama with the backing of Israeli funds....uh oh, we've all seen this before.