Military Reform´s for all Faction´s....

Hallo,

as you can remember in Vanilla RTW it was possible to build all your Units in every City as soon as the Barracks were high enough....EB has drop it for reality but has created with this a new Problem for all Faction´s except Roman´s.

As now the Roman´s have 3 Reforms that allow them to build and retrain their Units at last overall in the World (after Augustian Reform).
And this is high needed since its nearly impossible to bring a Legion from Asia back to Rom to retrain...it would need much year´s ig to bring them back or to send them a Unit as rainforcment (or press you to use the movment cheat :embarassed: )

The real Romans have solved this Problem with their Polybian,Marian and final Imperial Reform´s and this is in EB.
But all the other Faction´s? in real World there was not really a need for this since the Roman´s have crush all other Power´s but EB looks for reality only at start in 272 BC...after that the AI and you can make what you will....and the Problem´s starts.

Lets look at my Carthago game....i use in Iberia nearly Iberia Recruited Troops only (for easy retraining and resupply and since their damn good too ;) ) and in Afrika only Carthago Troops (for same reasons as Iberia Troops in today Spain) but now i have war with Potolomai and have conquered Alexandria and Memphis...i known the real Carthago has never do it but in game you can and make it....and now, with Lv 4 and 5 Mic´s Factional/Non Factional i can train in Factional Lv 4 Mic only 1 Ballista and 1 Onager Unit and in nonfactional Aconistai and Hellen Archer.....both absolut useless Troops for all except to fill the Garrison of the City with cheap Troops....to fight the Potolamai Elite Troops i can use Mercenaries that are non retrainable and often useless or i can fight with my Carthago Core Troops and wait after every battle 10 years for reinforcment from Carthago or have to fight at brigdes to keep the losses at lowes level (like a cheat v Ai).

And if i go more v. East this Problem will go bigger.....think about Roman Legion that Conquer,hold and repulse Attacks far away in Asia without Marian Reform....

As said in real world only the Roman´s have had this Problem but they have fix it with their Reforms....and any other Power that would do it too if they would have such Problems....so my Point is to give all factions a Military Reform so if their Empire has more Provinces as >xx (like Roman Marian) it will allow them to train/retrain their Core Units in more Provinces (if you have as lets say Carthago 60+ Provinces after 100 year fighting you can say that the People in the Provinces next to Carthago Core Provinces are now loyal enough to Carthago that they can be draft to their Core Units).

PS: Memphis and Alexandria allow´s Lv 2 Goverment as Carthago.
To said that its a recruit gap is no solution since to put, let say Classic Hoplites into the Rooster, will still not allowed to retrain the Core Troops.
It were no Problem if you would dont build you Trrops in the City´s but create them in Provinces (like it was in reality) and draft the Soldier in a pool of Recruits that will be than send to the Units to fill them up (after creating or after loses in battle) as it was in reality but that is not the way in EB :sweatdrop: so if we must build and retrain our Units in City´s we should have the possibility to do it in the Province they are (like the Roman´s and only the Romans can do now in EB).

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Originally Posted by Schatten

Hallo,

as you can remember in Vanilla RTW it was possible to build all your Units in every City as soon as the Barracks were high enough....EB has drop it for reality but has created with this a new Problem for all Faction´s except Roman´s.

As now the Roman´s have 3 Reforms that allow them to build and retrain their Units at last overall in the World (after Augustian Reform).
And this is high needed since its nearly impossible to bring a Legion from Asia back to Rom to retrain...it would need much year´s ig to bring them back or to send them a Unit as rainforcment (or press you to use the movment cheat :embarassed: )

The real Romans have solved this Problem with their Polybian,Marian and final Imperial Reform´s and this is in EB.
But all the other Faction´s? in real World there was not really a need for this since the Roman´s have crush all other Power´s but EB looks for reality only at start in 272 BC...after that the AI and you can make what you will....and the Problem´s starts.

Lets look at my Carthago game....i use in Iberia nearly Iberia Recruited Troops only (for easy retraining and resupply and since their damn good too ;) ) and in Afrika only Carthago Troops (for same reasons as Iberia Troops in today Spain) but now i have war with Potolomai and have conquered Alexandria and Memphis...i known the real Carthago has never do it but in game you can and make it....and now, with Lv 4 and 5 Mic´s Factional/Non Factional i can train in Factional Lv 4 Mic only 1 Ballista and 1 Onager Unit and in nonfactional Aconistai and Hellen Archer.....both absolut useless Troops for all except to fill the Garrison of the City with cheap Troops....to fight the Potolamai Elite Troops i can use Mercenaries that are non retrainable and often useless or i can fight with my Carthago Core Troops and wait after every battle 10 years for reinforcment from Carthago or have to fight at brigdes to keep the losses at lowes level (like a cheat v Ai).

And if i go more v. East this Problem will go bigger.....think about Roman Legion that Conquer,hold and repulse Attacks far away in Asia without Marian Reform....

As said in real world only the Roman´s have had this Problem but they have fix it with their Reforms....and any other Power that would do it too if they would have such Problems....so my Point is to give all factions a Military Reform so if their Empire has more Provinces as >xx (like Roman Marian) it will allow them to train/retrain their Core Units in more Provinces (if you have as lets say Carthago 60+ Provinces after 100 year fighting you can say that the People in the Provinces next to Carthago Core Provinces are now loyal enough to Carthago that they can be draft to their Core Units).

PS: Memphis and Alexandria allow´s Lv 2 Goverment as Carthago.
To said that its a recruit gap is no solution since to put, let say Classic Hoplites into the Rooster, will still not allowed to retrain the Core Troops.
It were no Problem if you would dont build you Trrops in the City´s but create them in Provinces (like it was in reality) and draft the Soldier in a pool of Recruits that will be than send to the Units to fill them up (after creating or after loses in battle) as it was in reality but that is not the way in EB :sweatdrop: so if we must build and retrain our Units in City´s we should have the possibility to do it in the Province they are (like the Roman´s and only the Romans can do now in EB).

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I really like this idea. But as you said your self only the Romans ever did this in reality, so I doubt we will ever see it in the game. A pitty though. :shame:

XGM has this feature. They have transformed the religions-system of BI in a Culture-system. Provinces have native cultures(a building) which increase the growth of this group. If the province has another culture as your faction, you can build Colonys in there. They increase the growth of your group and increase tax income. Purpose for all this: You need a specific Colony level or your culture as the native one to build high tier troops. It works good, as these colonys are expensive. But I don't think the modders do want to implement something like this to EB, because it would be too much work (just take a look at the EDB and you'll know) and perhaps for some other reasons.

One staited, is thet the BI religion sistem, can handle only 3 diferent religions, not more, so there would be only 3 cultures.

Yes, Western Civilised(Romans and Greeks) Eastern civilised(the most part of the map has this, carthage too) and Barbarian. Not perfect, but the best way to implement migration easily in the rome engine.

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Originally Posted by Aranor

I really like this idea. But as you said your self only the Romans ever did this in reality, so I doubt we will ever see it in the game. A pitty though. :shame:

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yes the Roman were the only but this was since they have destroyed all other Power´s bevor the other were big enough to face such Problems.
But in EB its possible and so the other Powers should have those Reforms like Romans too i think.

Personally, I like building armies out of rag-tag locals. Requires you to change your tactics.

Not that makes the idea less valid, I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Look at how Alexander went about it. Aside from the occasional batches of reinforcements from Macedonia he was pretty darn soon enlisting Persians for pretty much everything...

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Originally Posted by RabbitDynamite

Personally, I like building armies out of rag-tag locals. Requires you to change your tactics.

Not that makes the idea less valid, I just thought I'd throw it out there.

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I agree. I always utilise local troops as much as possible - out of necessity, mostly. The logistics would need some sort of improvement, so it doesn't take three years to reinforce Iberia with forces from Rome.

Ever tried campaigning against the Saba? It takes 2 years just to get the troops through to them (though ok, this was by land).

Another way of fixing it somewhat would be extending the usefulness of local troops and their varaiety. Rome can't built Thorakidai, for example - why not? They even utilised similar soldiers towards the late Republic.

McHrozni

When waging war far from homeland You should gradually increase local troops numbers in Your army. Keep only Your best faction troops as core of Your army and all the light troops/skirmishers/archers that die easily get from local.
And ofcource dont ship Your elites back to homeland. Bring reinforcements from homeland and merge.

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Originally Posted by Ower

One staited, is thet the BI religion sistem, can handle only 3 diferent religions, not more, so there would be only 3 cultures.

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Actually modders have found a way to add more religions, up to 9 total IIRC.

Carthage has it good as far as their victory condition is concerned. I just can't imagine myself actually completing a campaign with a Hellenic faction because that requires you to conquer half the middle east, most wich you'll have to walk - logistics would be nightmarish. Carthage only has to do conquer territories relatively closeby and mostly coastal.

My advice...do as LorDBulA advices ~;)

Only the first 3 slots works properly, the extra ones doesn't cause unrest and some cases of weird population growth issues have been reported with them...

To be honest, if anything I think EB is too liberal in allowing factions to recruit outside their homelands. There isn't really any completely satisfying way to represent this issue considering the current limitations of RTW.

i think they should allow for more options of factional recruitment for type 2 governments, once your empire gets somewhat large, ability to get troops to places where they need to be gets extremely hard, yes i know this is realistic but even if you use type 4 governments there are very very few troops to select from, from the local populace of foreign provinces.

If an empire gets large i agree with the notion that there should be some sort of way to show an empire's need for soldiers, with some sort of reform showing the governments allowance of different cultures rather then just their own to become soldiers.

Also what about Alexander the Great? didnt he believe in training asian troops to fight in the macedonian form? thus basically allowing them macedonian citizenship? I dunno im prly just rambling.

I just think it would be logical for if a faction gets to a certain size (depending upon their nation, like if the lustonians expanded outside of the iberian penninsula) then like, however many provinces are in spain you take that and say total #< # owned, year<200b.c. (199b.c for example.) then it would allow an increase in homeland provinces and more type 2 governments.

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

Also what about Alexander the Great? didnt he believe in training asian troops to fight in the macedonian form?

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The end result of that - and raw practical military necessities of the Diadochi - is the Pantodapoi and Machimoi Phalangitai, I understand.

hi
A question]
where are your heavy cohorts with the full armour?
Not like vanilla but i seen some sites that shows haevy armour on their chest
and shoulders ( I didnt see this on your faction list is their a reason why?
:inquisitive:
thanks

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Originally Posted by swhunter

hi
A question]
where are your heavy cohorts with the full armour?
Not like vanilla but i seen some sites that shows haevy armour on their chest
and shoulders ( I didnt see this on your faction list is their a reason why?
:inquisitive:
thanks

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I think you're talking about lorica segmentata armor. That armor was only put into large scale use a long time after this mod's time period ends (14 AD). The first example of that armor was found in 9BC, and it didn't show up again until about 9AD and the Roman army didn't use it in quantity until quite a bit after that.

I will admit it would be nice that eventually you could recruit some factional units . Cause I don't know about you but it sucks ass to be in the Sweboz boondocks as a hellenic faction .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swhunter

hi
A question]
where are your heavy cohorts with the full armour?
Not like vanilla but i seen some sites that shows haevy armour on their chest
and shoulders ( I didnt see this on your faction list is their a reason why?
:inquisitive:
thanks

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See here.

Hey watchman you guys ever going to touch the issue of


wtf , why does a dude in pajama's have 20 defense ?


I know the reasons why but for the shorties man , the shorties .

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Originally Posted by russia almighty

Hey watchman you guys ever going to touch the issue of


wtf , why does a dude in pajama's have 20 defense ?


I know the reasons why but for the shorties man , the shorties .

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:huh:
You do know the defensive stat is broken up into three sections right...armour, defensive skill, and shield right? Most shields give at least 3, iirc almost all units have 1 armour, and most "dudes in pajama's" were warriors who had been fighting since they could hold a weapon, so they are going to have good defensive skills.

Actually Fondor I though the Jamaican Colors rule fell on them , you can't kill a guy in Jamaican colors or multi color clothing in general . Why do you think my Casse Empire Spreads from Britannia to the ME?