First impressions of first EB game by RTR vet

I've played Rome Total War in its various forms for years now, most recently playing the Platinum Edition of the mod "Rome Total Realism". Although I felt a certain sense of loyalty to that mod, I decided to give EB a try. I am very impressed so far. This mod seems to be far superior to the one I've played for years.

I am playing on Very Hard/Medium difficulty.

Some key observations:


The game feels more realistic all around. Perhaps its the longer build times for buildings, but it is *wonderful* to be in the 240's and not see *any* factions knocked out. In RTR, either the Seleucid or Ptolemaic Empire is a monster by the 240's, and typically has put out the other "superpower", and is a sure-bet to pretty much conquer the entire East.

Turns are shorter. The AI doesn't seem to flood the map with tiny, hopeless stacks of troops that do nothing but cause a nuisance. I am playing as Rome, and the Gauls have not bothered me at all, which is ideal, since I prefer historic expansion. Even though I have the forces to do so, I have refrained from conquering Mediolanium and Massila simply because "it isn't time to". It is difficult to stick to historic expansion as Rome in RTR, because you are harassed incessantly not only by small land stacks besieging Arminium and Arretrium, but by a constant Gallic naval presence in the Adriatic.

Diplomacy seems more sensible as well. After the fall of Taras, Epirus cheerfully took my cease fire/trade agreement offer and proceeded to conquer most of Macedonia, rather than continue to harass me, even though their foothold in Italy was gone. No factions have declared war on me. I besieged Messana in 264, triggering the First Punic war. This is my only concern so far, as Carthage mounted virtually no resistance for more than 20 years. I forced myself to let Lilybaeum alone for more than 10 years, hoping to give them a chance to mount some resistance, but none was ever forthcoming. Most distressing is the fact that I've not seen a single Carthaginian fleet. I have 3 squads of Quinquiremes myself. Two of which are blockading Carthage's major ports in an effort to force them to accept peace. They offer me peace, but have the audacity to ask for 5000 $ in return, even though they have decisively lost the war!

I have a few questions:

What are examples of cities that I would want to build a type 3 or 4 government in? I've yet to build anything beyond type 2 so far.

In RTR, when a new character "comes of age", he is sent to Rome to study for 4 years before serving 10 years as a tribune. During this period he typically builds up a stable of ancillaries. I've built a library in Rome, but the ancillaries are not showing up very often at all. What are some other buildings that I should construct to build up retinues before I send these new characters out for duty?

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Originally Posted by Darviathar

I have a few questions:

What are examples of cities that I would want to build a type 3 or 4 government in? I've yet to build anything beyond type 2 so far.

In RTR, when a new character "comes of age", he is sent to Rome to study for 4 years before serving 10 years as a tribune. During this period he typically builds up a stable of ancillaries. I've built a library in Rome, but the ancillaries are not showing up very often at all. What are some other buildings that I should construct to build up retinues before I send these new characters out for duty?

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Type2 are part of your empire. Type3 are part of your empire but with some local controls left in place. And Type4 are protectorates or allied states. You can either role play, and make certain areas that you want as allies Type4 and parts that you want part of your empire Type2. Or you could do it based on the units that area available in regions. Some regions have a lot of your own units and Type1/2 are best. Some regions have native units that are nice and Type3/4 should be built to get them.

Much of EB character development is done through traits. There aren't a ton of ancillaries to get or seek out. The 8 cap on ancillaries makes them kind of useless. The higher the level of educational facility, the better intelligence based traits and ancillaries the character will get.

Hi, hope your enjoying E.B. (the best mod ever!!!!)

In my experince the Carthies rarely do anything without BI.exe, (which I can't recomend strongly enough) as the AI almost never uses fleets or naval invasions.

For the goverments try Massilia in a type 4 (wonderful mix of Helleno-Puno-Celtic units) and possibly also Syracusae and some of the Iberian towns.

But seriously check thisthread out A.S.A.P. and then this one.

there will, however, be a slew of new roman ancilliaries in newer versions of EB.

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Originally Posted by Wolfe

Hi, hope your enjoying E.B. (the best mod ever!!!!)

In my experince the Carthies rarely do anything without BI.exe, (which I can't recomend strongly enough) as the AI almost never uses fleets or naval invasions.

For the goverments try Massilia in a type 4 (wonderful mix of Helleno-Puno-Celtic units) and possibly also Syracusae and some of the Iberian towns.

But seriously check thisthread out A.S.A.P. and then this one.

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I've used the BI.exe mods for Rome Total Realism. Will this work on my saved game, or will it cause problems if I change the shortcut and resume my game in 242?

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In my experince the Carthies rarely do anything without BI.exe, (which I can't recomend strongly enough) as the AI almost never uses fleets or naval invasions.

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If they had enough time (100 turns), they can became an unstoppable monster ;)

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I've used the BI.exe mods for Rome Total Realism. Will this work on my saved game, or will it cause problems if I change the shortcut and resume my game in 242?

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I don't know this, but look i the unofficial modding subforum, there is a thread about this issue and plenty of minimods, which inlcude BI only features like shield wall, to EB.

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Diplomacy seems more sensible as well. After the fall of Taras, Epirus cheerfully took my cease fire/trade agreement offer and proceeded to conquer most of Macedonia, rather than continue to harass me, even though their foothold in Italy was gone.

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This wasn't doen by EB, it's a hardcoded feature from vanilla RTW, if you cut the direct connection to your enemy (no more direct border province like in your game) they will ask for peace.

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Originally Posted by Darviathar

I've used the BI.exe mods for Rome Total Realism. Will this work on my saved game, or will it cause problems if I change the shortcut and resume my game in 242?

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You can change to the BI.exe after a campaign has started. No problems.

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Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

Much of EB character development is done through traits. There aren't a ton of ancillaries to get or seek out. The 8 cap on ancillaries makes them kind of useless. The higher the level of educational facility, the better intelligence based traits and ancillaries the character will get.

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Personally I wouldn't say 500+ ancillaries are few in number.

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Originally Posted by BozosLiveHere

Personally I wouldn't say 500+ ancillaries are few in number.

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"All things are relative."
:clown:


(I didn't mean to belittle the EB ancillary system. But those coming from RTR have a different point of view on the subject.)

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This wasn't doen by EB, it's a hardcoded feature from vanilla RTW, if you cut the direct connection to your enemy (no more direct border province like in your game) they will ask for peace.

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I think the reason is that it is very early in the game; in the first years of the game it is easy to make peace with anyone, you only have to ask (and this is universally RTW, doesn't have to do with mods). After 20 years or so have passed, it is impossible to make peace; it doesn't have to do with direct borders, I have never managed to make peace with Carthage as Rome in any mod I have played, even though I share no land borders with them.

There seems to be a "hate gauge" in RTW. It is easy to make the AI hate you, but hard to make them like you. At the beginning of the game, the hate gauge is empty (other than the little bit that having the 'war' condition seems to add) and it is easy to get peace.

sounds fair, i doubt after capturing sicily, then making peace with carthage, then taking Corsica and Sardinia then making peace again, i doubt they would IRL be like "oh hey, you want peace huh? alright even though i know in my heart your going to backstab me again. :inquisitive: "

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Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

Type2 are part of your empire. Type3 are part of your empire but with some local controls left in place. And Type4 are protectorates or allied states. You can either role play, and make certain areas that you want as allies Type4 and parts that you want part of your empire Type2. Or you could do it based on the units that area available in regions. Some regions have a lot of your own units and Type1/2 are best. Some regions have native units that are nice and Type3/4 should be built to get them.

Much of EB character development is done through traits. There aren't a ton of ancillaries to get or seek out. The 8 cap on ancillaries makes them kind of useless. The higher the level of educational facility, the better intelligence based traits and ancillaries the character will get.

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technially a type 4 isn't an allied state since you still control the province. They should make it so that the type 4 government is actually a real "protecorate" gov't under the control of the AI...but that's probably impossible due to hardcoding

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

technially a type 4 isn't an allied state since you still control the province. They should make it so that the type 4 government is actually a real "protecorate" gov't under the control of the AI...but that's probably impossible due to hardcoding

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The future may hold a surprise...

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Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

The future may hold a surprise...

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:D

Someone cracked the hardcoded exe program??? O_O o_o

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Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus

The future may hold a surprise...

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Why, why do you plague us with such hope? When you will snatch us from the proverbial teat just before we can latch on. By feeding us those evil quaterly snippets of information on the next breakthrough.
Why not weekly snippetf of important info? It seems far less evil, and the EB team are the avitars of Goodness...

No hardcode cracking. Just trying to do some neat stuff in this particular area and are having some success so far. Still in progress, so you'll get no news of it yet from us.

If you realy want to you can make any allied state under AI controll by ticking the boxes and loseing the govener.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

I think the reason is that it is very early in the game; in the first years of the game it is easy to make peace with anyone, you only have to ask (and this is universally RTW, doesn't have to do with mods). After 20 years or so have passed, it is impossible to make peace; it doesn't have to do with direct borders, I have never managed to make peace with Carthage as Rome in any mod I have played, even though I share no land borders with them.

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This is exactly the case in RTR. As I stated earlier, I prefer historical expansion. I'll start the first Punic war in 264, take sicily, and then later Corsica and Sardina. Then blockaded ports and try to force Carthage to accept peace. They never will. And typically they don't do so hot in Iberia either. In all the games of both mods that I've played recently, they've been at war with Iberia and generally been on the losing end. This combination would make it VERY LIKELY that the faction would take anything but a Versailles-type peace offer.

In RTR, Epirus won't always sign peace with me after I eject them from Tarentum. There have been times in which I've tried to maintain a balance in Greece between Macedon and the Greek cities (as Rome) when one is a threat to totally overwhelm the other. I'd send "relief army stacks" to smash besiegers and try to give the weaker faction a chance. What invariably happens is that the weak faction attacks me instead.

At any rate, I'm only in 239 in my EB game. But as I said earlier, it just "feels" more realistic. The slower expansion and the inability to blitzkrieg through provinces is a huge positive difference for me!

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

No hardcode cracking. Just trying to do some neat stuff in this particular area and are having some success so far. Still in progress, so you'll get no news of it yet from us.

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so the AI will be a self sufficent provinces maybe under a separate or pre-existing (factional-protectorate) AI...with the ability to create its own armies and move independently? sweet...


"alatar If you realy want to you can make any allied state under AI controll by ticking the boxes and loseing the govener. "

That's really just a "do-nothing" province. I mean like actual AI control when they build armies and send them off to fight independently of your empire.
ie A faction protectorate that allows you to build crap in their cities but will always be allied to you and always give you some of their income.

We're not saying what it involves exactly, but it is substantially more involved than that. :grin: