Where are my "Gothic" Units

Hi guys,
I'm playing in XL as the Aragonese, and I've just reached 1350 and I'm glad to say that, for the first time ever, I'm doing quite well. I'm currently in deadlock with the Byzantines, for the first time ever I have picked a war with a faction that cannot remove me within sixteen turns, and I have the largest military, have the highest level of technology and am the richest! No idea how I got there, but anyhow, back to topic.

As I have said, it is 1350, yet I cannot see any of these plush new Gothic Units wandering the map. In one settlement I have build all of the military building up to their maximum, but still, nothing Gothic comes and all I can see is Chivalric troops. Although, given that, my Royal Knights seem to have changed their look for something more "modern" and defensive. Sorry to be a burden to you all, this is probably all my fault as it is always, yet do the Gothic units come later in XL or do I have to do something extra to gain them?

Many thanks, cheers!

If memory serves, I believe Gothic Knights are only available to the HRE and Venetians (Italians in vanilla MTW/VI). They might also be available to the Bohemians and Genoans in XL, but I'm not sure about that.

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Originally Posted by Martok

If memory serves, I believe Gothic Knights are only available to the HRE and Venetians (Italians in vanilla MTW/VI). They might also be available to the Bohemians and Genoans in XL, but I'm not sure about that.

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Martok is right according to the MTW unit availability guide I have. It says gothic sergeants and knights are only available to Germans and Italians (Venetians).

There's a whole bunch of fantastic guides, maps and lists etc at this link:

http://www.mizus.com/files/files/FAQs/mtw/

Haven't linked before (hope that works!). It contains everything you need so that when you're not playing MTW you can be thinking about it...

Gothic Knights require the last Royal Court building (The Baronial Court IIRC), some other high level weaponsmiths and are only available from the late period. I have actually never teched up to these units and never fielded them in battle, due to my seldom playing as the HRE and Italians and not often playing a full campaign to the end.

@Omanes: Why are you sorry for the lack of Gothics? You are playing as Aragon so you get Lancers, which are easily the best cavalry unit in the entire game. They have the same stats as late royal bodyguards, but are 40 men instead of 20 and really pack a mean punch on the field.

In contrast, Gothic knights are slow, don't sport too remarkable a charge and have lower attack than most other knights IIRC. All they basically have is their AP melee attack.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

Why are you sorry for the lack of Gothics?

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It's really a sort of obsession I developed from playing AoE I and it's population limitations. I always used to be obsessed with keeping up with the times and treads to use up my population slots wisely, always insuring that I removed all my old Broad Swordsmen, one population slot, after I researched logistics. This halved the population slot for Barracks infantry BTW. The same was true for when Axemen became outdated in the Bronze Age or when Slingers lost their effect due to better quality archers.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

You are playing as Aragon so you get Lancers, which are easily the best cavalry unit in the entire game

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Thanks for the tip! Since they required the County Militia building I was weary of their might, thinking that they may just be a little bit like Militia Sargents or Urban Militia - slightly outdated now in late. I also thought that units needed the word "Feudal", "Chivalric" or "Gothic" before their name to be decent troops. I'll check all units out before dismissing them in future!

Thanks for all you advice and tips! Especially to you General Dazza, I'll download some of those sheets when I get home! Thanks again.

I am currently playing a HRE game. Assuming the Pope allows me to DEFEND MYSELF against the French, I´ll find out how noteworthy they are

Or rather, I wont, as it´s the first serious catholic game I´ve played (I don´t think I made a good choice picking the harshest, most underdeveloped, and invasion magnet faction)

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites the Idiot

Thanks for the tip! Since they required the County Militia building I was weary of their might, thinking that they may just be a little bit like Militia Sargents or Urban Militia - slightly outdated now in late.

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Lancers do not require the County Militia. That is only required for Pikemen.

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

@Omanes: In contrast, Gothic knights are slow, don't sport too remarkable a charge and have lower attack than most other knights IIRC. All they basically have is their AP melee attack.

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I beg your freaking pardon. They have the highest defence and armour in the game.

They can carve a hole through any formation (except for good polearms) and walk out the other side!

I'm a bit narky that the Genoese don't get them, as I'm playing a Genoese campaign right now...

I just assumed that Vikinghorde would give them to both Genoa and Venice.

:-(

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Originally Posted by Roark

I'm a bit narky that the Genoese don't get them, as I'm playing a Genoese campaign right now...

I just assumed that Vikinghorde would give them to both Genoa and Venice.

:-(

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My guess is that it was probably an oversight.

Besides, you have to admit the thought of the great trading cities of northern Italy being able to churn out heavy knights like that -- when they're better known for their militia -- is just....well, wrong. (For that reason, I like to think he left them out on purpose. ~;))

Shouldn't Milan and the northern most parts of Italy be able to produce them? I think letting the area of Venice and Genoa produce them would be a mistake but they have to be avaliable in Milan.

Those would be Milanese Knights. Milanese armour is of similar quality to Gothic armour but of a different appearance IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Shouldn't Milan and the northern most parts of Italy be able to produce them? I think letting the area of Venice and Genoa produce them would be a mistake but they have to be avaliable in Milan.

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Like Martok pointed out, the Italian city states were never famous for their knights. To be honest, it's quite impossible to recreate the complicated system of condottieri that existed in medieval "Italy" within the limits of MTW. One possible solution would be to make the "Milanese Knight" unit dependant on the Inn, just like Latin Auxillaries in XL.

Indeed Milanese armour was similar in quality to Gothic armour, though of a different appearance. Considering that Gothic units should be available to the following factions (in Vanilla and VI): England, France, Spain, Aragon, Holy Roman Empire and Poland while Milanese armour should be available for Italians, Papal States and Siciliy*.


* This is debatable though, as Sicily doesn't exist in Late. In Early they are more Norman than Italian and in High they are Sicilians, though under German rule.