Generals in Cities and Bad Traits?

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Originally Posted by Dopp
I took a look at the unpacked character traits file and noticed that characters are SEVERELY penalized for being in cities. Basically, if a character governs a city with a certain level of structure built, he stands a pretty good chance of becoming a useless bum. This was particularly pronounced in RTW where every one of my governors became corrupt, womanizing catamites who were also bad taxmen, poor farmers, poor miners, poor administrators and hated merchants to boot. This is because of the way the traits system works. Every time a character ends his turn in a settlement, he stands a chance of picking up traits based on the level of buildings there. These chances stack and are pretty high. Considering that governors have to spend turn after turn in their settlements, they will eventually become totally useless.

For example, the expensive tastes trait line can cut your income by 30%, yet it is insanely easy to pick up. The coaching house, theatre, public baths, merchant quarter and pleasure palace each give a 3-5% chance of your character picking up 1 point of expensive tastes every turn and these chances all stack. Furthermore, there are triggers for the "bloated empire" effect. If your treasury is above 50k florins then any character that ends the turn in any settlement in your empire stands a 3% chance of getting expensive tastes, plus additional 3% checks if your treasury is above 100k and 150k respectively. These are all in addition to the chances from the settlement buildings, making it extremely unlikely that any character will escape unscathed after even a single turn in a settlement. And of course, expensive tastes is hardly the only trait you can pick up this way. Girls, gambling and drinking are easy to pick up; in fact gambling and drink are 5% checks for each level of brothel/tavern you have built.

Characters in castles are safe from most of these vices, yet an oversight causes them to pick up bad traits as well. Any governor whose people are content and happy and whose tax rate is normal or lower stands a 15% chance every turn to pick up the really harmful bad taxman trait (-30% to taxes at the highest level). The problem is the tax rate for castles is fixed at normal and public order for castles is usually very high, so any character who manages a castle is almost guaranteed to become a bad taxman.

Unless addressed in a patch or modded, there is really no point to having governors in M2TW, just like there was no point in RTW. Most of the negative traits cause unrest or reduce income, so the settlement is actually worse off by having a governor. All characters should avoid settlements like the plague and stay in the field.

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I have a question, because of the above issue with leaving Generals in cities, what would be the best way to handle genreals? I feel weird leaving them in forts outside cities. Let's say I do leave them outside cities, then they would not get married, right? Anyways, how big of a deal would it be if I left them in a city and pick up a few bad traits, how bad could it get?

Well, the leaked 1.02 patch does seem to help a bit as do a lot of mods...

But if you are leaving your generals outside then you might as well use them for fighting...

I seem to avoid the worst of it by simply not building brothels in must settlements. I will build one or two of this line for Spy and Assassin production areas but that is it... If you manage to snag a Prince a high charm princess then you can pretty safely leave him in charge of a city with the brothel line...

Besides, I quite enjoy the roleplaying aspect of the elite of my growing empire becoming all corrupt and lazy as a result of my success... :laugh4:

Sounds pretty historical too Bob. :2thumbsup:

It can get pretty bad. My worst general ever has like -40% taxes, +10 squalor, and -6 or 7 morale all because I built the highest level of brothels in the place along with some other pretty high level buildings

Yup, try naming one great empire in our history where the elite wasn't corrupt...

Rome? Hell no! They had efficient politicians, do I have to say more?
The greeks? Alexanders empire was destroyed because of the bickering between his generals...
Ottomans? Nope, the janissary army became fat and corrupt, with a hate for change and a talent for killing off sultans.
Russians? There was a reason why the revolution was a possibility you know...
The french? Wine, wine and more wine.
The english? Beer, beer and more money.

Hmm, good point about every empire ever to exist being fat and corrupt:smash:

So, maybe my new strategy should be to put my generals in smaller settlements and leave my more developed cities free of generals unless those bigger cities lack certain high level buildings...Anyone know which are the bad buildings to have with a general in them? I take high level brothels are one, what are the others and thanks for the info everyone.

keep em in the field its easier

The situation is not as bad with 1.02 patch. Just build some church and train some priest, dont build any "happyness or expensive" building if not in need will be fine.

Uhm, a huge city certainly needs a good governor. You can easily pull 1000 florins more out of a 4000 florin city... Just watch him, and kill him off if you decides to turn to the dark side of the florin...

As for must-have buildings, the academy buildings are #1. With the patch, city halls are also a must. Churches are good to. As for buildings to avoid, brothels cause all sorts of problems. Avoid them if you're not planning to build spies in that city.