Holy *add an explitive here* VH is very hard.

Well I tried my first campaign on VH, normally i only go for normal, but yesterday I wanted a challenge. Well I decided to start off as the Germans, only reasons being, one they seem like a challenge on vh, and that I'm about 1/4 german. Everything started out ok, I had enough generals with enough acumen to let more then half the empire have a govenor. I was going to improve the farming income then embark on a campaign towards the east, taking the steppes.

Well that dream was killed, the Italians sunk one of my boats on the 1st turn, and i thought I should not go and have an eastern war and the Italians on me, so I did nothing. I never even attacked back, knowing I could be excommed, so I waited and hoped for peace. After 10 years, all seemed well, then the italians attacked and conquered Provence, I lost it, and couldn't take it back. The French then attacked in Friesland, and Lorraine, I was able to get both back, but ended up losing Lorraine again. The Italians then came up and took Burgundy from me, and that's not even the worse.

Next the Danish attacked, they too Saxony, which I took back abate 1-2 years later, with a warning from the pope. Some time passed, and the Polish entered the fray and took Brandenburg, which i took back, and the Danish again took Saxony, which I reconquered, only to get excommed this time.

Needless to say, I kinda gave up at that point, and decided as long as I'm trying the -ian debug thing, I might as well get my revenge, so I took over the Italians, French, Polish, and the Danes, and disbanded all their armies, and destroyed all their buildings, which i found fun, and was able to get all my land and then some back.

Now, I know doing that wasn't right, but i was pissed, losing, and figured I can't save the empire so why not. This also doesn't mean I'm not gonna try VH anymore, I just thought everyone would get a laugh out of what happened.

Well it certainly doesn't help that you chose to play one of the more difficult factions on a higher difficulty setting, either. You not only jumped into the "grown up" pool, you also jumped into the deep end of it! ~;)

MTW has no VH difficulty, so I assume you're referring to "Expert" rather than "Hard"? Expert gives morale bonus to the AI, and as far as I know that is the only major difference between Hard and Expert. I assume that you were previously playing on Easy or Normal? Try sticking to the Hard difficulty level as it gives the best balance.

:bow:

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Originally Posted by Cambyses II

MTW has no VH difficulty, so I assume you're referring to "Expert" rather than "Hard"? Expert gives morale bonus to the AI, and as far as I know that is the only major difference between Hard and Expert. I assume that you were previously playing on Easy or Normal? Try sticking to the Hard difficulty level as it gives the best balance.

:bow:

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MTW2 does.

@ nara shikamaru: Tell me about it. :laugh4:

https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1923/untitledip0.png

Current German game that crashed soon after that screenie.

Well there's your problem, you have too much money. Spend it on some troops. :knight:

yeah, I meant Expert, guess i was thinking of RTW, when I was trying to think of the diffuculty levels in MTW.

@Rythmic, is that a Fuedal knight as your king? I ask only because I don't remember that as a royal bodyguard unit. I'd also like to know who attacked you 1st, and if the pope warned you for taking back your own territory? Also why does it seem the comp eats away at the HRE, almost from the get go.

I did try another Expert campaign, as the HRE, I shaved a few years off a war with the italians, by gettin rid of my one boat. They ended up with Provence, but I got it back, along with Milan and Genoa after they were excommed, the Italians were at war with the Sicilians, who are my ally. Right now I'm at war with no one, and I'm thinking of taking out the Polish, who were severely weakened by a war with the Russians.

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Originally Posted by nara shikamaru

is that a Fuedal knight as your king? I ask only because I don't remember that as a royal bodyguard unit.

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It's the pocket mod so the icon is changed (I think).

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Originally Posted by nara shikamaru

I'd also like to know who attacked you 1st, and if the pope warned you for taking back your own territory?

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France attacked Lorraine and Burgundy, I defended both successfully. They then attacked Lorraine again this time I withdrew and regrouped to attack Ile de France. They withdrew from Lorraine and I re-took it, getting excommunicated in the process. Then the Danes invaded, so I transferred forces North to repel them. The Hungarians then attacked, and I was forced to withdraw from Austria, defended Bohemia 4-5 times but withdrew when they finally sent a large force. They snatched Tyrolia soon after. I then gathered a large force and repelled them from Tyrolia and Austria, but the Danes stabbed me in the back so I withdrew from Austria and sent a decent general to crush them for good. At the same time I kept the Hungarians occupied by sending my useless princes to their deaths in Austria and Bohemia.

I never attacked first so they all should have been excommunicated?!

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Originally Posted by Rythmic

I never attacked first so they all should have been excommunicated?!

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True. But as you probably already know, a Catholic faction that attacks another Catholic faction will only be excommed if it has twice as many provinces as its opponent. Since you're (initially) much bigger than your neighbors, that's why they can get away with attacking you while avoiding receiving a Papal edict against further incursions. No it's not entirely fair, but that's the game for ya. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Martok

a Catholic faction that attacks another Catholic faction will only be excommed if it has twice as many provinces as its opponent

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Ahhhh. :bow:

Very hard/expert is pointless IMO (i used to play only VH only and so learned it the hard way), hard gives equal chances to the player and the AI as neither is advantaged by bonuses and the AI is not holding back. Aggressiveness is also increased and that plays not very well for the AI as he neglects his economy and takes needless risks in order to invade.

In STW, i saw full (high tech) stacks dropping litteraly from the skies on bankrupted factions on expert. Eversince then i stoped it completely, as i realised that it plays only if you want to stringe your teeth a lot, with or without any particular reason.

Many Thanks

Noir

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Originally Posted by Rythmic

It's the pocket mod so the icon is changed (I think).

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What is this pocket mod? Where is it and what does it do?

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Originally Posted by Noir

Very hard/expert is pointless IMO (i used to play only VH only and so learned it the hard way), hard gives equal chances to the player and the AI as neither is advantaged by bonuses and the AI is not holding back. Aggressiveness is also increased and that plays not very well for the AI as he neglects his economy and takes needless risks in order to invade.

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I just played an HRE game on expert and found it a real challenge. I don't mind the AI getting some bonuses, but I'm not sure about the aggressiveness. My enemies were reasonably aggressive, but then I was playing HRE, so, hello!

Is this an issue for others too? Is this the only difference to take into account?

I've done a reasonable amount of gaming on both Hard and Expert and I have to say that Expert is decently tougher than just Hard. Although the AI is a bit more aggressive, it isn't so without reason; it gets +4 morale just for being on the field.

One reason it may seem easier is because the +4 morale really doesn't compare to the advantage a player has with decent ranged weapons on the defense. Either way though, ultimately either the computer attacks in those situations and loses, or you're playing a lower difficulty, allowing you to attack, and it will still lose. At least on Very Hard, you'll have a somewhat harder time attacking the comp on its ground.

In any case, I know for a fact that on Very Hard, the margin of acceptability when the computer calculates odds. That is, there is a narrower window between A) you not bringing enough troops to the table and losing; and B) the computer deciding not to engage. There is also less of a window between A) winning with autoresolve and your average player's performance in battle.

There is not much difference in autoresolve differences though, so Very Hard won't be much harder than Hard if you press that all the time, (though pressing autoresolve is still usually less effective than grinding it out on your own unless you make a huge mistake.) Nevertheless, I've been able to appreciate the somewhat greater challenge as I've been willing to actually fight the battles more often.

Heh. I've gotten my rump handed to me the few times I've played on Expert, so I simply don't bother. :dunce: I also *think* (but I'm not sure) that the AI starts with more money than you do -- not by a lot, but by a couple thousand florins or so. (You start with 4000 on Expert, whereas I believe the AI starts with 6000-8000.) This would also explain their increased aggressiveness, as they can afford to lose more troops in the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Garnier

What is this pocket mod? Where is it and what does it do?

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Just follow the link in my sig, Garnier, and you'll find the answer to both of your questions. :bow:

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Originally Posted by General Dazza

I just played an HRE game on expert and found it a real challenge. I don't mind the AI getting some bonuses, but I'm not sure about the aggressiveness. My enemies were reasonably aggressive, but then I was playing HRE, so, hello!

Is this an issue for others too? Is this the only difference to take into account?

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The bonuses are the main problem. The AI armies are very difficult to rout which one may equate to greater difficulty. This is not the case. I've found that on expert I more often than not kill the AI general/faction leader before he routs and most AI units also refuse to rout until they're almost wiped out, all due to the morale bonus. Because of this units that go in on an all out bumrush, kill a lot and gain valour, such as Vikings or heavy non elite cavalry, are battle winners whereas other types of strategies that aim to break the enemies morale, fail. You can rack up some serious kills on expert and see your units valour shoot up. On Hard difficulty these units would mostly be routing after a certain number of losses and the valour gained for capturing them whilst they're running away is less than for killing them while they're fighting. Also there are occasions where the morale bonus can appear as blatantly false. It's not always obvious and in some battles you may not notice it. But there are particular battles where the artificial morale of the AI units has you shaking your head in disbelief. Such as your superior force being routed by some Urban Militia that just won't give up.

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Originally posted by Cambyses II
The bonuses are the main problem. The AI armies are very difficult to rout which one may equate to greater difficulty. This is not the case. I've found that on expert I more often than not kill the AI general/faction leader before he routs and most AI units also refuse to rout until they're almost wiped out, all due to the morale bonus. Because of this units that go in on an all out bumrush, kill a lot and gain valour, such as Vikings or heavy non elite cavalry, are battle winners whereas other types of strategies that aim to break the enemies morale, fail. You can rack up some serious kills on expert and see your units valour shoot up. On Hard difficulty these units would mostly be routing after a certain number of losses and the valour gained for capturing them whilst they're running away is less than for killing them while they're fighting. Also there are occasions where the morale bonus can appear as blatantly false. It's not always obvious and in some battles you may not notice it. But there are particular battles where the artificial morale of the AI units has you shaking your head in disbelief. Such as your superior force being routed by some Urban Militia that just won't give up.

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As Cambsyses II points out the bonuses make sure that the fragile balance that needs to be kept between various elements of the army (infantry/missiles/cavalry) matters not in expert as units will fight often to the last man - the match-up/flanking balance of the gameplay is disturbed.

The AI is in fact a very decent tactician assuming he's getting equal strength units as the player and that the maps are anything below hilly. From hllyand above the ground is so much higher that in the MP your opponent will deny playing it as it technically gives a unsurpassable advantage. It amazed me how i was thinking all these years (without having played multiplayer) that it is normal for the AI to play such maps as well as the fact that the AI was labelled "poor" as opponent.

In the Samurai Wars mod, army composition is fixed, and when you play in maps with reasonable bumps for both sides, the AI is really really tough in hard and quite a winner in expert i'm afraid!

Many Thanks

Noir