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in the new interview with Michael de Planter he says that multiplayer is likely to be with gamespy. . hmmmm i am not sure i like that too much as i dont particulary like gamespy. . what do u guys think?
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Lets rain bullets on them. . but make sure you bring the Umberella!
WarlordWarrior
means no lobby, so socialising is out. Also, as it is 'easy' to ue g*yspy, it gets flooded with little s***s who who will camp on hills. Look at sudden strike as an example.
Hmmmm that will suck.
Lets make a vote and send them to EA. I would like some nice, reliable servers with good multi code and we should be more than fine.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html
Gimme a server plz. Gimme a server that isn't down all the time. Gimme a server that lets me host. Gimme a server without campers, cheaters, redzoners,.... well thats impossible maybe, but at least gimme the first three things and gimme FUN online.
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Strength and honour
Bomilkar Date
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!
We don't want multiplayer on SERVERS!!! WE WANT TRUE TCP/IP MULTIPLAYER! Let me yap on ICQ, but connect with my opponent (s) directly. This mess of "gaming servers" is absolute foolishness. I have ranted on this before, and I will do so again. I don't have a problem including "service" multiplayer - but locking us into a service to play means that if the service goes away - so does multiplayer. And for all of you who don't think that game services disappear - just look at Heat.net or Mplayer.com - GONE! If the original Shogun had relied on MPlayer (which was as strong or stronger at shogun release than gamespy is currently is) - guess what - NO ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO PLAY SHOGUN ONLINE right now. Gamers need to wake up to the fact that gaming services that provide servers are NOT a good thing. First -what are you going to do when gamespy decides that they need 2 shogun servers for half-life because all their paying customers are playing half-life and complaining of lag? What are you going to do when your one place, and your opponent is 2 hours away - yet your data packets have to travel halfway across the continent (or world) and causes monster lag?
Cmon, I understand why game companies want to roll to services only. But when doing so leaves us in the cold - or even has the potential to do so - they need to include an alternate method. Direct connection (heck use DPlay - u do when u connect to service based games anyway!) and give gamers the option to play as multiplayer was truly intentioned.
Qapla!
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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
Gamespy is a wonderful program! And those 30 second force adds are just peachy.
MTW
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Bis peccare in bello non licet
BSM_Skkzarg
i am mainly in agreement with you . . what u say about mplayer heat.net etc. . exactly the point i was going to raise and a very good one!
i still think that it is good, and makes shogun what it is as a community, that we can talk to one another online. . it gives us that ,much of an understanding with each other and u gain more friendships and better ones because of it. . which makes people play shogun online more!
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Lets rain bullets on them. . but make sure you bring the Umberella!
WarlordWarrior
That would be so F*cked up if we can't chat online.
Ok, I never used Gamespy before. So I can't tell...
But if I recall correctly every time the server has been down so far people have been complaining all over the place. And every time there were always a few that went 'Why the hell don't they use GameSpy'. Nobody then raised these issues...
Now they mention they are thinking about this, and whammo... complaining again.
The argument being we want to be able to chat with eachother... The argument being we want to host peer to peer and not rely on a service all...
Those two arguments for one don't add up. Lessee... no service... so the one thing that people with illegal versions can't do (play multiplayer) will be open to them as well?
Look, I don't know the perfect solution. A heavy dedicated server with a big banwidth would probably do it, especially if it's stable. But the complaining... I really don't see how that's ever going to change... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
Good points Erado.
I actually don't have so much of a problem with the current server, seeing as i can play 2v2 with no lag with europeans and americans, even hosting sometimes, and i only have a 56k.
Can someone explain please how u go about joining games on gamespy ? what it looks like etc. Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I thought you could chat on Gamespy? I have seen chat logs posted from it on other sites.
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"DP is correct" - Shiro
Konnichiwa,
Gamespy. I've used it a few times. You have to make an account and log in (done with a web browser). GS certainly needs to get used to, I felt quite lost there. As I don't use it that much I still will be.
But it does has a chatoption! And rooms.
The game that made me use GS was Flashpoint. FlashPoint also has the option to type an IP# and join the game directly, without the need to use GS. So without the need to use an 'external server'.
I'ld vote to have that second option too. The next step is: dedicated servers! Something UT, RTCW and many great games have: this will allow the construction of your own server. And maybe it will allow to configure your server with your own chatroom.
(Note: games that use an app like gamespy do have chatoptions themselves, both in the actual game and the setup).
Yes, all these options could make us a scattered community, but login to the STW server: 20 people on average now. And that is only one server, the only one. Play RTCW on a dedicated server (simply pick one from a list), there are 15 people ready to play. There are even servers with 51 people ready to play. There are over 100 servers listed.
Start an online Quake Arena game: over 1,000 servers will be listed, all populated by people willing to play.
There are communities of games (Unreal Tournament Infiltration) that run their very personal server. When you run your own server, you have the option to password it, kick/ban baddies. Such a server is for playing directly of course and as MTW will only allow 8 players in 1 game, this wouldn't be a nice community server. But if the developpers allow us to do it, we could built a server with a chatroom that works like the current server.
Finding your friends will be a problem with all these options? How about making appointments on this forum, or use a messenger. Games like RTCW and Quake allows to make a favourite list (servers with a good connection and/or nice people).
I like the move away from the closed EA server and to GameSpy, not only is GS a better thing than the EA server, I guess the options mentioned above could also become available.
P.S. I just finished a nice chatsession in GameSpy.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Gamespy isnt a really server..its more like a chat room/lobby and the games are used with TCP/IP play ....you meet at GS and talk and you have even the option to add your buddys to a list so you see them online on GS(even at other games lobbys) etc etc
It is a better places then we have now since it allows direct play to IP´s http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
My vote is a big YES!
theforce wrote "make a vote and send to EA"....hello EA is out of this game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif its activision now rofl.
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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan
OK... I use gamespy. The fleet that I have been a part of for SOOOO long is currently based there - after having to move off of 2 other services. I am NOT complaining - I am addressing something that I have talked about before - protecting US the consumer and giving us options. As for "chat", if you want to use gamespy, fine - my fleet uses ICQ and Paltalk and email and msg boards. Yes, we do chat in lobby, but its a minor portion. Its up to the people. All I am asking for is the OPTION.
Yes Erado, the purpose of server gaming on EAPlay was to restrain piracy. However, when you log on to EAPlay, your serial is checked for authenticity. This does not happen on Gamespy - as gamespy does not do copy protection checking! So the whole purpose of limiting us to a SERVICE for CP is wasted when you make the game go to gamespy. If you are using a cracked/patched current version of the game, gamespy will NOT know and would allow you to play. That being the case, Activision/DT/CA lose nothing in security by giving a straight IP connection option. All they do is bottle us into a service that may or may not be there 6 months after the release of the game.
I am anti-piracy. If you want to try a game before you buy it, download the demo. If you like it, go buy the game. I owned both Shogun and WE (I gave TOG away after my WE purchase), and will buy MTW. But in providing support for the company by buying the product, I do expect them to consider what is best for me, the consumer.
Personally, I admit, game services are more hassle than they are usually worth. That's an opinion. What is fact is that many have disappeared, and if MTW MP is only there, and it goes away, so does multiplayer. I don't want to see that. Neither do many ppl here.
Its not a complaint - its a concern. And given that I talked repeatedly about this (as far back as MONTHS ago), its not an out of the blue topic. Lastly, I am not against having a service included - I only ask for direct connection as a secondary or alternate method to protect us.
Qapla!
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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
Points taken.
Like I said, never visited GameSpy before, so can't really judge the quality/options.
What I just don't get is that people get what has been requested so often (Gamespy) and now in this and other threads on this forum people are going 'Oh no... not GameSpy'. As far as I'm concerned, if it's an improvement over EA Play (anything will be I think) then that's ok. At least this time they announce it well in advance, so you know what you're getting.
have a lobby, AND the ability to connect direct with IP's.
If you though situation in the lobby was bad wait for gamespy. Everybody calls names and stuff like that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Also with many servers it would be difficult to find yer mates http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif and fight yer enemies.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html
I played MEDAL of HONOR ALLIED ASSAULT just a few times briefly on gamespy,and had no probs.
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TeuTonic
Stransky-Grab your MP-40 and I'll take you where the Iron crosses grow row on row.
Steiner...
[This message has been edited by clink (edited 02-02-2002).]
If there is no lobby style area to meet, how will you build up a good online community?
[This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 02-02-2002).]
yes but MOHAA (brilliant game!) . . is a tottaly different kind of game to M:TW and shogun . .
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Lets rain bullets on them. . but make sure you bring the Umberella!
WarlordWarrior
I wonder if any of you could answer me a question - please
I'm on AOL (dont hiss at me)
And I have a lot of problems with gamespy, Ive never actually got it to work, I sit for twenty minutes, get fed up with it downloading, or not appearing to do anything, and then cancel
Do any of the rest of you use AOL ?
i use BT and i have had some probs with getting counter-strike to work thorugh it but i have played other games via it tho . .
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Lets rain bullets on them. . but make sure you bring the Umberella!
WarlordWarrior
oh and dont think (that) much lesser of me for being with BT . . i know they r shyte and will be changing asap http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif . . .cable. . . hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
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Lets rain bullets on them. . but make sure you bring the Umberella!
WarlordWarrior
Gamespy - does have a "lobby" - of sorts. Its very similiar to the way Mplayer used to be. Now, as to the AOL question - no I don't use it. However, other than the ungodly slow speed of it, if you ever complete your download, you will find that Gamespy can give some decent gaming. Its really dependant on how they have allocated resources to your game. This is one of the reasons I (among others) have requested that direct connections be allowed as well.
Qapla!
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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
ok, let's clear a few things up. first, gamespy is indeed very much like mplayer. in fact, it uses the same basic code. the problem is that some folks dont know what mplayer was.
mplayer was a gaming service. free. you accessed it thru your web browser. you had an account with a password and logged in thru your browswer. when you got in you were presented with some advertising which you simply clicked off. you then were given their menu system, which broke games down into their types, strategy, war games, adventure and so on. you picked what you wanted and it took you to a new menu which offered all the games of that sort upon it. you picked the one you wanted and it took you to that game's main lobby.
EVERYONE logged in to that game had to log into the main lobby of that game. once you were in the main lobby you had a split screen, top and bottom. the top listed all the game ROOMS currently being set up or played. you could filter those icons listed by various attributes, like latency, number of players, full, etc. you could also click on those icons to see a bit more info on the host and players in the room and so on. and yes, you could chat in the lobby. in fact, the split screen was adjustable. you could show more chat or more available games, however you wanted. there were more options for chat as well, as in font size, font color and so forth. you could also set folks on ignore.
to enter a room you simply double clicked on a room and it would take you into that room. one person in the room, whoever set it up, was designated as the host and had certain controls within the room, including launching the game when ready. folks that entered the room had to actually click a button saying they were ready to play before they would be launched into the game when the host began things. thus, you went to a ROOM to set up or join a game, but didnt have to play if you didnt want to. you could jsut sit and chat if that's what you wanted.
when the host launched the game the host became the game server. the mplayer service simply handed this task off to the player host. when the game was over the game handed you back to the main server. thus, it was direct play, but not direct ip. direct ip is where one person logs onto the internet and then runs his own game and becomes the server himself, independent of ANY other servers. folks can then just log into his machine directly. this is what bsm is argueing for, this option, and it makes sense. gamespy may currently have direct play, but it does NOT have direct ip and if gamespy were to suddenly collapse as mplayer and HEAT did, then no more M:TW. thus, we're at their mercy. many times on the HEAT network we'd simply meet on HEAT, one guy would decide to host a direct ip and we'd all log off HEAT and log into that guy's machine for a game. this was because sometimes HEAT would get screwy, or we thought we could gain a bit of connect speed. often, we could host 8 players in a game whereas on the HEAT network we'd be lucky to get 6.
i've played on gamespy as well and it is indeed very similar to the old HEAT and mplayer networks, with the addition of more advertising and clumsiness. i've often found it difficult to get patches and updates and ANY kind of download from there. lately, this seems to be a bit better, but i've not used it a lot. there are always idiots on these things, but that's what the ignore feature is for.
the buddy feature on gamespy acts just like msn's buddy list. anyone that is logged into the network and that is on your buddy list will be shown to you, even if they are in a different lobby. you can also direct message and direct page then thru the network. you also can have a personal icon to represent you on the network, like this forum does. you also get active latencies of anyone in the room and even the lobby. thus, if you want a latency minimum, as host, you can simply exlude folks with larger latencies. it's a pretty good network, but it learned from mplayer and heat and pays for itself with advertising and 'preferred' accounts where folks pay a bit for preferential treatment, like download priorities and possibly bandwidth...not sure about this last one.
so, there would be no loss of chat features. in fact, they would be enhanced. logging in would be slower, mostly due to the advertising. game speed shldnt be affected due to direct play, but might be a tiny bit slower than direct ip. out of syncs would also be a touch greater than direct ip. aol users are always going to suffer on things like this, regardless of the network or even direct ip because of the way aol accesses the internet. oh, you didnt know that aol isnt part of the internet? ah, you shld do a little study ;)
tosa mentions doing something like rtcw (return to castle wolfenstein) for M:TW, and you would have to add a chatroom lobby if you did. all rtcw does is stick you on a server LIST as a host. you then join the host directly yourself, with no interfacing chat lobby or rooms. so, all you see is a list of game hosts (players) and pick one and join the game directly, while it is playing. so, the only chat for rtcw is in the game itself.
since gamespy also hosts a number of other popular games there will be that benefit also, having many of your popular games on one server. they are all in separate lobbies so no need to worry about folks in flashpoint all taking up all the chat with flashpoint chat.
another good point about something like gamespy is that it's more closely monitored than the EA servers we are used to, where we're lucky if someone comes along once in two weeks to see if the servers are still up. gamespy has constant monitoring, though i have seen it reboot parts of itself, but it's never down very long and normally this is only on individual servers, not the entire network.
overall, gamespy would be a step up from the EA servers, with some drawbacks, but still not the ideal scene.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
thanks for explaining Kraellin http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
*cough cough*
minute long force watch adds
*cough cough*
out of sync. NNOOOOOOOO again i say, go look at sudden strike to see what going out of sync has done to online play. (killed it)
Kraellin,
Excellent explanation. Your a vet indeed of gaming services if you played on HEAT. Now, my understanding is a slightly bit different from yours on the "direct" gaming part. With Mplayer and now with Gamespy, when u launch a game, the "game service" makes the host the server - but my understanding is that all the data packets still are ROUTED through the game service - and while they are passed through instead of processed - it can still add to lag. Especially if they have dedicated limited server resources to M:TW and the lobby/room/games get crowded. That is were my analogy of you and your friend that are 2 hours (or 2 blocks) away from each other may be sending data halfway across the continent or world and back again - which will cause some lag.
I agree that GS will be a "step up" over EAPlay. I just am worried that while EAPlay was supported by the game publisher and thus was (somewhat) assured of continuing existence, GameSpy cannot give us the consumer (or Activision for that matter) any commitment to be there hosting M:TW games 6 months after the release. That is truly my largest concern, and one that I know is shared by a good number of other folks. The issues of Lag are, although important (downright critical really) in MP gaming, are secondary to making sure we have an ability to play MP in some form other than LAN gaming.
Lastly, my question as to why this is a problem (if it is - I hope its in there and they just are not telling us) for CA/Activision to consider. EA locked S:TW and WE/MI users into the EAPlay gaming service - both for bottom line revenue reasons and also as a form of copy protection. When you log on, your serial is verified and if in use - your barred from playing. Limiting us to EAPlay made some small amount of sense and was a business decision. Limiting us to GameSpy only, while endangering M:TW's multiplayer future, does not give CA/Activision the copy protection that EA had with EAPlay. Gamespy does not have the capability of verifying your serial #, nor can it restrict you from playing if your serial is already in use. The most CA/Activision can do is ensure that no 2 games with the same serial can play with/against each other. That doesn't accomplish anything in regards to copy protection.
To be honest, I am saddened by the fact that game makers (thats all the companies and ppl involved) have to go to such extremes to protect their product. I don't blame them for wanting to protect their investment. I just hope that it stops being done at the expense of folks like me who purchase legal editions of their product. Decisions such as not including direct TCP/IP connections do limit us consumers, and that is cause for concern.
Again, Kraellin, excellent explanation. I would love to get some feedback, both from the forum, and from Target or other powers that be.
Qapla!
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BSM_Skkzarg
"ARG when I'm Happy, ARG when I'm Sad, ARG when I'm good or bad. ARG!"
"ARG to port! ARG to starboard! Arg from stem to stern! ARG!"