Pedites Extraordinarii more expensive than Samnite Infantry, but weaker?

Hi everyone! A little thing thats been bugging me recently is that when looking at my recruitment options there are the pedites extraordinarii as well as the samnite heavy infantry, the extraordinarii have more expensive upkeep, but the infantry has better defense. So now I'm wondering what makes the extraordinarii worth more than the infantry, could it be the morale? In addition to that, I'm curious as to how the defense points work in game. I mean is it purely who has the most points or does it make a difference whether it's armor, shield, or skill?


-Aramazon

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Originally Posted by Aramazon

Hi everyone! A little thing thats been bugging me recently is that when looking at my recruitment options there are the pedites extraordinarii as well as the samnite heavy infantry, the extraordinarii have more expensive upkeep, but the infantry has better defense. So now I'm wondering what makes the extraordinarii worth more than the infantry, could it be the morale? In addition to that, I'm curious as to how the defense points work in game. I mean is it purely who has the most points or does it make a difference whether it's armor, shield, or skill?


-Aramazon

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I didn't get that either, but they always seem to be evenly matched in battle, so the Extraordinarii must have some stat that justifies it.

But I love my Samnites. I buy every one I can find.

Yes, the different defence stats do matter. Shield protects the front left, armor is overall protection and defence skill determines how likely the enemy is to get a lethal hit I think.

Those two units look exactly the same except for uniform colors and shield emblems. Samnite has a tri-wing design while Pedite has an eagle.


I actually think the Samnite Millites/Infantry is stronger than Pedites...but I get both cuz Samnite is more readily avaliable (plentiful merc unit in Italy) while Pedites are retrainable.

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Those two units look exactly the same except for uniform colors and shield emblems. Samnite has a tri-wing design while Pedite has an eagle.


I actually think the Samnite Millites/Infantry is stronger than Pedites...but I get both cuz Samnite is more readily avaliable (plentiful merc unit in Italy) while Pedites are retrainable.

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The Samnitici Milites are retrainable as well, so there's no need to use the Pedites Extraordinarii at all, especially because of their expense. The Pedites do look a little sexier, though.

Yes, but only in a camillan MIC. And frankly, keeping those around after the polybians hit is just plain wrong.

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Originally Posted by LordCurlyton

Yes, but only in a camillan MIC. And frankly, keeping those around after the polybians hit is just plain wrong.

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Aw, seriously? Damn...I didn't even notice that...

but u can still get Samnite mercs....:2thumbsup:

I could be wrong here, but it seems like that samnite milites are only available in mid-southern Italy, while you can get extraordinarii with the appropriate barracks anywhere. That might be why extraordinarii are less able and more expensive than the Samnite milites.

I am always recruiting Samnites which are cheaper and have better stats overall. Wait, I remember, I had a couple of units of pedites extraordinari attached just for flavour.

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I mean is it purely who has the most points or does it make a difference whether it's armor, shield, or skill?

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The armour points protects from all sides, the shield points from the front and left and the skill points from the front and right. Missiles ignore skill. To make an example, say a unit has these stats:

Armour: 5
Defensive skill: 10
Shield: 4

Then attacks from...

... the front gives 19 defense (9 vs missile)
... the left gives 9 defense (9 vs missile)
... the right gives 15 defense (5 vs missile)
... the back gives 5 defense (5 vs missile)

That's basically it.

Bear in mind that unit recruitment and upkeep costs don't only reflect the stats. EB also takes such things into account such as historical availabilty, influence of recruitment on the productivity of the land, or the effect of recruitment on rebelliousness of the region. There are a whole number of possible reasons, but bear in mind that more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.

Also, shield values are doubled for missile fire, I think.

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Originally Posted by Pharnakes

Also, shield values are doubled for missile fire, I think.

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Yes, I've heard so too, but AFAIK it's debatable. Some say it does, some say it doesn't, so I decided to leave that out and just stick with what I know to be true.

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Originally Posted by Dyabedes of Aphrodisias

The Samnitici Milites are retrainable as well, so there's no need to use the Pedites Extraordinarii at all, especially because of their expense. The Pedites do look a little sexier, though.

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Umm, I don't think so. I can only get the Samnite Infantry through buying mercs. I'm talking about the heavy infantry with the big bronze shields, not the samnite spearmen by the way.

I have both polybian and camillian barracks at the highest & 2nd highest lvls in Italy, and I can only train Pedites Extrandanrii and not Samnite Heavy Infantry.

I can recruit and retrain the Samnite Heavy Infantry in Arpi.

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Umm, I don't think so. I can only get the Samnite Infantry through buying mercs. I'm talking about the heavy infantry with the big bronze shields, not the samnite spearmen by the way.

I have both polybian and camillian barracks at the highest & 2nd highest lvls in Italy, and I can only train Pedites Extrandanrii and not Samnite Heavy Infantry.

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Yeah, I'm talking about the swordsmen with the tri-thing on their golden shield. You can recruit and retrain them in Capua and Arpi with the highest Camillan MIC.

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Originally Posted by Dyabedes of Aphrodisias

Yeah, I'm talking about the swordsmen with the tri-thing on their golden shield. You can recruit and retrain them in Capua and Arpi with the highest Camillan MIC.

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WahhaA!!!!!???!? Oh crap... Is there anyway to use the console to upgrade your MIC to the highest without going throught the Polybian reforms?

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

WahhaA!!!!!???!? Oh crap... Is there anyway to use the console to upgrade your MIC to the highest without going throught the Polybian reforms?

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Build it before time schedule for reform, and you need MIC 4 i believe not 5 :)

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Originally Posted by mlp071

Build it before time schedule for reform, and you need MIC 4 i believe not 5 :)

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Gawddamn... I have 2 Camillan Era lvl 5 MIC in Central Italy, 2 lvl 4 Polybian MIC in Northern Italy, and the rest are Polybian era MICs in Southern Italy...
I'm in 215 BCE, way past the reforms. Is there anyway I can use the code or change the script to give me camillan lvl 4/5 MIC in Southern Italy?

yea the cosole command ~process_cq settlement name
sorry didnt read that right i dont think so but hey i am new here:oops:

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Originally Posted by sgsandor

yea the cosole command ~process_cq settlement name
sorry didnt read that right i dont think so but hey i am new here:oops:

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That won't let you change any buildings though. That just builds everything in the queue. I don't think there's anyway to go back without major fiddling, Intranet :/

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Originally Posted by Dyabedes of Aphrodisias

That won't let you change any buildings though. That just builds everything in the queue. I don't think there's anyway to go back without major fiddling, Intranet :/

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RAWRRRR!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Aramazon

So now I'm wondering what makes the extraordinarii worth more than the infantry, could it be the morale?

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Inflation! :beam:

Well, they appear lavishly equipped. (aka spoiled) hence the increased cost? I'm just taking a poke at it... :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

Well, they appear lavishly equipped. (aka spoiled) hence the increased cost? I'm just taking a poke at it... :laugh4:

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Yup...instead of the Samnite's bronze plate shields, the Pedites plate their shield with gold leaf... >_<

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Bear in mind that unit recruitment and upkeep costs don't only reflect the stats. EB also takes such things into account such as historical availabilty, influence of recruitment on the productivity of the land, or the effect of recruitment on rebelliousness of the region. There are a whole number of possible reasons, but bear in mind that more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.

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Yes, thats definitely true. Camillan Triarii have 1 defense more, but are ~50 cheaper than the Polybian.
And Poly's Principes pay a lot for +2 defense and losing their anti-cav-spears.

I dont exactly understand the difference in Camillan and Polybian triarii besides new armor, and a new shield, but from what im hearing im guessing they are inferior to the camillan triarii? if so why?

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Originally Posted by MastaSpoofa

I dont exactly understand the difference in Camillan and Polybian triarii besides new armor, and a new shield, but from what im hearing im guessing they are inferior to the camillan triarii? if so why?

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no clue...

but the polybian triari is more expensive and has less attack I think.
Camillan Triari is a hoplite that can form shield wall & has better stats & lower upkeep...weird

The Polybian Triarii exchanges stats for mobility. (This is not as evident since the Camilian Triarii lost the 'phalanx' formation.)

So, where polybian triarii not the men who held the line? I dont understand why, if they were the safegaurd of the legion, to hold the enemy until the legion could regroup, I dont know why they would choose to allow for more mobility. Please explain if you have the time. (I lack any knowledge but it doesn't seem logical.)