Australian man extradited to the US for copyright infringement

Australian man extradited to the US for copyright infringement

A nation giving up its citizens after a charge of copyright infringement which could have easily been tried under its own laws? :dizzy2:

The accused facing a penalty worse than that of rape?

It's like the Australian govt.'s attitude to David Hicks again, this time in reverse.... :furious3:

That's rubbish, he shouldn't be able to be tried in the US. He should be tried here! That's why I'm never giving up my British citizenship because I know if I get in trouble the Australian government won't help me at all.

Funny story, when I went to get my citizenship the interviewer told me my major rights and responsibilities that came along with the citizenship. She said if I ever required assistance while overseas the Government would do its best to assist. To which I replied, "Yeah, just like your doing for David Hicks." She didn't look to happy then.

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Originally Posted by the article

But Drink or Die's activities did cost American companies money — an estimated $US50 million ($A60 million), if legal sales were substituted for illegal downloads undertaken through Drink or Die.

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I think this is purely hypothetical. The American companies have no way to prove that this is true.
If this was true the total sales numbers would most probably be way higher than ever before in their whole business history. (There was a study that showed that sales for CD's where at an all time high during the reign of Kazaa)
To convict him on the base of this speculation does seem disproportional. Especially when compared with the penalty for rape.

R'as

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Originally Posted by the article

British-based members of Drink or Die were reportedly tried in Britain.

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So this Aussie member (leader?) of a team of code-crackers getting extradited is a precedent-setter. I have discomfort with this.

Maybe all will be made well next month at his sentencing. He's already done 3 years in Oz jail, and 3-4 months in Virginia. Sentence him to 'time served' and fly him back home.

In the bigger picture, this precedent, if pursued, had best be reciprocal - US stealers of Aussie intellectual property being shipped to Oz to face charges.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

In the bigger picture, this precedent, if pursued, had best be reciprocal - US stealers of Aussie intellectual property being shipped to Oz to face charges.

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Wouldn't be that bad I guess, our prisons aren't as notorious as yours, nor our sentences as long.

Looks like someone is being made an example. When sentenced, where will he serve his time, US or Oz? Hope it's Oz, the commute for family visits to the US would be a real hardship. The OZ sentence for rape seems curiously light imo. I wonder what the sentence is for intellectual property theft? Whatever it is, that should be his sentence, which as Kukri stated, most likely time served.

So he stole software from US companies and as a punishment, he gets a free visit to the US? Including free flight, free lodging, free food.
If they wouldn't lock the door behind me, I'd take that even without stealing anything.:idea2:
Seriously, he stole from the US and now the US pays a lot of money to charge him with the crime instead of letting Australia do that for them?
I can understand that in certain emotional cases or so, but this is mostly about money, so why pay even more?:sweatdrop:

No problem with the extradition as far as I can tell.

I agree that Australia should have the right for quid-pro-quo on similar issues.

We really need to go after the Chinese intellectual piracy if we're going to make a significant example though.

It sounds pretty harsh. I seriously doubt American prosecutors are going after IP theft quite so aggessively in places like China and Taiwan, where it's done at the corporate level. Can't rock that boat, now can we.

On an aside, 6 years for rape? Wow, you guys don't value your women, do you?

6 years is a quite common sentence for murder here... Rape a couple of years lower, but of course depending on brutality. The max sentence is life(21 years) for both cases though.

But I guess we don't believe in punishment as much as certain yanks...

Wow. Just plain wow. I'm so glad I don't take the family overseas with me. I had no idea you folks had so little respect for life, victims or law. 6 years for killing somebody? 4 years for raping somebody? At country club prisons? Wow.

And yet, we have crime rates that are a mere fraction of yours...interesting thing...

Btw, 3 years is probably closer to the typical sentence for rape here. Don't quote me on exact numbers though, I haven't researched this, this is just from memory...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

And yet, we have crime rates that are a mere fraction of yours...interesting thing...

Btw, 3 years is probably closer to the typical sentence for rape here. Don't quote me on exact numbers though, I haven't researched this, this is just from memory...

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I cannot argue that as I don't have a good understanding of the sociology of crime. You're certain that it's your per capita rates that are a fraction of ours, not just the number of incidents?

It is atrocious that one of Her Britannic Majesty's subjects, British or Colonial, be treated in this fashion by a Foreign Power! I demand the immediate blockade of all US ports until the chap is released!

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I cannot argue that as I don't have a good understanding of the sociology of crime. You're certain that it's your per capita rates that are a fraction of ours, not just the number of incidents?

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Per capita, of course. How many are murdered each year in the US? 20k? 30k? Last year, we had 50 murders here. USA has around 240 million? In norway, we have 4,5 million, about 50 times lower than USA. Multiplying 50 by 50 gives 2500, at the very least 8 times lower than the US....

Well, I'll grant you, according to NationMaster Norway has a lower murder and rape rate than the USA. But there's more to it than the causal affect you seem to be implying.

Norway does have softer prison sentancing on murderers and rapists than the USA and enjoys lower rape (12/100K) and murder (1/100K) than the USA (30/100K) and (4/100K) respectively.

But Australia, the country that started this all, like Norway, has relatively soft penalties for rape and murder. Their rates are rape=78/100K and murder = 1.5/100K respectively. Similarly, Canada also has softer penalties on rape yet has more rapes per capita than the USA, at 73/100K.

So, it's not a simple matter of being tougher on crime makes it more likely to happen. Personally, I think all nations owe it to the women and children of their society (the victims of rape) to lock the monsters that did up for a spell. 3 years of golf and job training hardly seems like justice to me.

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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm

It is atrocious that one of Her Britannic Majesty's subjects, British or Colonial, be treated in this fashion by a Foreign Power! I demand the immediate blockade of all US ports until the chap is released!

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This particular "colonial" was extradited with the consent of Australian authorities. Blockading us might be a tad harsh as a response, old bean.

Perhaps you could send some descendent of Bannister Tarleton off to Canberra to clout some sense into the provincials.....:devilish:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, I'll grant you, according to NationMaster Norway has a lower murder and rape rate than the USA. But there's more to it than the causal affect you seem to be implying.

Norway does have softer prison sentancing on murderers and rapists than the USA and enjoys lower rape (12/100K) and murder (1/100K) than the USA (30/100K) and (4/100K) respectively.

But Australia, the country that started this all, like Norway, has relatively soft penalties for rape and murder. Their rates are rape=78/100K and murder = 1.5/100K respectively. Similarly, Canada also has softer penalties on rape yet has more rapes per capita than the USA, at 73/100K.

So, it's not a simple matter of being tougher on crime makes it more likely to happen. Personally, I think all nations owe it to the women and children of their society (the victims of rape) to lock the monsters that did up for a spell. 3 years of golf and job training hardly seems like justice to me.

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The real stat needed to answer your concern Don is the recidivism rates for these countries. I too find such sentences overly light. However, if the recidivism rate among previous incarcerees is significantly lower per capita in Norway than in the USA, THEN Horetore might be smack on target.

On a side note, Rape is a problem in Australia, as is the justice systems way of handling both the case and the victims. Something like 355 of rape victims don't appear in court, of those that do, 305 said they wouldn't do it again.

Mass rape and serial rapist are treated differently here, and receive some of the harshest terms possible, i think the last ones (2 brothers) got 55 years and 70 years each.

the book about it is called : Girls like you.


On the other issue, of Australian nationals getting left for dead by the government, there is a lovely little ad on TV here about citizenship saying things like "assistance in foreign countries".

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

So, it's not a simple matter of being tougher on crime makes it more likely to happen. Personally, I think all nations owe it to the women and children of their society (the victims of rape) to lock the monsters that did up for a spell. 3 years of golf and job training hardly seems like justice to me.

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Well, I believe there are some cultural difference here. When someone is locked up for 10 years here, it is viewed as a very, very long time...

I don't know the recidivism rates here, but I do know that rapist/pedophiles who have been chemically castrated(not forced) has a rate of somewhere around 2-3%....

And sentencing times aside, the prison population will ensure that any time a rapist/paedophile/etc spends in prison will seem to be a very, very long time...

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

In the bigger picture, this precedent, if pursued, had best be reciprocal - US stealers of Aussie intellectual property being shipped to Oz to face charges.

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If it is reciprocal and with similar charges then it isn't to big an issue.

So how many copies of MTW2 does someone need to pirate to get sent here I wonder?

As for per capita crime rates...apart from murder which tends to be more clear cut... rape and other crimes may not translate as well because of:
1) Number reported.
2) Definition of rape (something that is sexual assault in one country may be rape in another)

I do agree that rape sentences should be increased... but there is a (small) danger that a (serial) rapist might just murder his victims and dump there bodies as the jump from rape to murder will be tiny as a sentence while the chances of getting caught decrease... a dead person is not about to front up to a police station.

IMDHO, I think the minimum sentence for rape should be the length of time it would take is from conception to adulthood in the nation so a sentence from 16 to 22 years depending on the definition of adulthood in the locale. It just seems a basis to take a criminal out of circulation for the amount of time that the inverse (a good parent) would be at a minimum raising a child... even if the rapist does not get the victim pregnant I think it has a nice minimum feel to it.

As for a planned murder, I say at least 35 years (half of 3 score and ten).

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As for a planned murder, I say at least 35 years (half of 3 score and ten).

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Which makes it all the more disgraceful that those two girls only got a minimum of 15 ~:(