Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

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05-20-2007, 15:59
Marshal Murat

Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

The Modern Bracket Generals
Round 2

8 generals, 4 general picks
Poll will be open for 7 days

Good Luck to you all.
05-21-2007, 11:09
PanzerJaeger

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

How is Rommel beating Manstein? :inquisitive: :furious3:

At least the Germans are leading, as they should. :yes:
05-21-2007, 11:34
Redleg

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

How is Rommel beating Manstein? :inquisitive: :furious3:

At least the Germans are leading, as they should. :yes:

Probably because Rommel is seen as the better battlefield general by those that voted for Rommel.
05-21-2007, 14:19
MilesGregarius

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

How is Rommel beating Manstein? :inquisitive: :furious3:

At least the Germans are leading, as they should. :yes:

They don't make movies about Manstein.
05-21-2007, 19:10
Rodion Romanovich

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Nice, those 4 I voted for are leading ~:cheers:
05-21-2007, 20:35
Seamus Fermanagh

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesGregarius

They don't make movies about Manstein.

Truth.

To a surprising extent, these polls reflect the "cult of personality" that has grown up around some of these blokes.

Not to say that it isn't one aspect of generaling -- it certainly paid off in huge dividends for Meg Alex -- but it can obscure other points of evaluation about abilities and accomplishments as a general.
05-21-2007, 21:01
AggonyDuck

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

The thing with WWII leaders is that there are huge differences between leading at Army Group level and leading at Corps level and what is actually required from a successful commander. For example Manstein is one of those blokes who really wasn't anything special as a corps commander, but as an Army Group commander he was propably the best the Germans had. There are also generals who were excellent at division and corps level command, but once in charge of armies and army groups they were quite mediocre.
05-21-2007, 22:14
PanzerJaeger

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redleg

Probably because Rommel is seen as the better battlefield general by those that voted for Rommel.

Well ya, that much is obvious or they wouldnt have voted for him.

It is surprising because among most historians Manstein is considered the better commander, the best of the war actually.

Of course most people in the English speaking world aren't interested in the Eastern Front.
05-27-2007, 14:03
Lorenzo_H

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

as usual the irony is that the losing general is hailed as being better.
05-27-2007, 22:24
Evil_Maniac From Mars

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzo_H

as usual the irony is that the losing general is hailed as being better.

The loss isn't always necessarily the general's fault, Lorenzo. :bow:
05-30-2007, 01:22
Marquis of Roland

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Well ya, that much is obvious or they wouldnt have voted for him.

It is surprising because among most historians Manstein is considered the better commander, the best of the war actually.

Of course most people in the English speaking world aren't interested in the Eastern Front.

That is so true!

In fact I asked a few people at the office on whether they knew anything about the Eastern front in WWII and the general kind of reply was either:

1) "Eastern front? Whats that?"
2) "You mean USA fighting Japanese?"
3) "You mean USA fighting Russians?" (no joke)
4) "Well, the USA did most of the fighting with Germany anyway, so whats the big deal?"

Well, at least I had a good laugh at work :laugh4:

P.S.
w00t a non-white guy made it, go China :2thumbsup: (prolly should've been Zhu De or Lin Biao instead but I guess I didn't put up the names in round 1, my bad).
05-30-2007, 03:54
seireikhaan

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marquis of Roland

That is so true!

In fact I asked a few people at the office on whether they knew anything about the Eastern front in WWII and the general kind of reply was either:

1) "Eastern front? Whats that?"
2) "You mean USA fighting Japanese?"
3) "You mean USA fighting Russians?" (no joke)
4) "Well, the USA did most of the fighting with Germany anyway, so whats the big deal?"

Well, at least I had a good laugh at work :laugh4:

P.S.
w00t a non-white guy made it, go China :2thumbsup: (prolly should've been Zhu De or Lin Biao instead but I guess I didn't put up the names in round 1, my bad).

And who says the American education system's in decline?

But really, that's just pathetic. I mean seriously, people thought we were fighting Russia? Wow.:embarassed: :shame:

Hmm, maybe I'll try asking my classmates at school since I've still got a few days left. Kinda scared what I'll get for a response, though, after seeing this.
05-30-2007, 14:29
MilesGregarius

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by greaterkhaan

And who says the American education system's in decline?

Decline implies that it once was better; sadly, it's been this bad for some time.
05-30-2007, 16:23
PanzerJaeger

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marquis of Roland

That is so true!

In fact I asked a few people at the office on whether they knew anything about the Eastern front in WWII and the general kind of reply was either:

1) "Eastern front? Whats that?"
2) "You mean USA fighting Japanese?"
3) "You mean USA fighting Russians?" (no joke)
4) "Well, the USA did most of the fighting with Germany anyway, so whats the big deal?"

Well, at least I had a good laugh at work :laugh4:

:shame:

Who to blame? The education system? Hollywood? Both probably... Also, the fact that the USSR quickly became the enemy after the war most likely made their contribution to the effort an unpleasant reality.

It constantly amazes me when American and Commonwealth people act as if their campaigns and battles with Germany were the quintessential struggles in the conflict. North Africa, Italy, and even D-Day paled in comparison to operations conducted in the East. That is where the German military was defeated.

Rommel's North African campaign is especially over-hyped. The scale of the entire operation was quite small and the numerical superiority the allies wielded toward the end reduced the role military skill played in the outcome.

It seems to have worked for Rommel's legacy though. I fear Manstein and the others would do even worse if this poll wasn't taken at the .org.
05-31-2007, 00:48
Seamus Fermanagh

Re: Summer Campaign-Modern Bracket Rd.2

Santayana tells us that those who do not study the past are condemned to repeat it.

Much of modern society couldn't care less -- as long as their plans for the weekend come off without any major hitch.

History is, for the majority, the "crap that happened before I came into existence and which is, therefore, only marginally relevant at best."

Against this backdrop I hope none of you are surprised that US citizens know little about Die Ostkrieg. They're even less aware that we sent soldiers into Russia to try to destroy the revolution at the end of War One. They only know that Banana Republic is a boutique -- not a metaphor for places we sent men to fight and die.

Rich in narcissistic ignorance, modern society races forward in the perpetual present, always seeking a better and more enjoyable tomorrow -- and perplexed that it doesn't seem to get much better.