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each unit has the following
no. of men
attack
defense
are the attack and defense values, the overall attack/defense of a full unit,
or is it the attack/defence per man ?
is a unit that has:
100 men
attack = 10
defense = 10
equal to a unit that has
50 men
attack = 10
defense = 10
or is it more powerful (by a factor of 2)
My understanding is that a unit of men is modelled on an individual man basis.
Thus, a unit of 100 men consists of 100 men each with 10xAttack and 10xDefence. Whilst a unit of 50 men has 50 men with 10,10.
Whether, a unit of 50 men is twice as powerful as a unit of 100 men largely depends on who is commanding the respective units and what the situation is were they to meet.
In the Shogun Totalwar game the modelling of individual men even extended to keeping an individual record of expereince, kills, armour quality and weapon quality. So, a unit of 100 men might contain a mix of veterans and newly recruited troops with various standards of armour and weapon which the unit interface averaged out for display purposes only, but applied man for man in actual combat.
I am not sure if that principle has been carried forward to MTW2 as I have never checked and I'm not aware of a tool to do so for this version of the game. I can't see why CA would have changed it though unless tracking individual soldiers was too CPU intensive.
that's my fear, that they might have changed how it works from one game to the next, pulled the carpet from under my feet so to speak
i originally thought that the 100 was equal to the 50 (of same stats), but if you're right it completely changes how i evaluate the worth of a unit,
Well one thing that is certain is that, if you play with huge unit size set as I do, the power of non-adjusted units like artillery is not adjusted to compensate. So, artillery is effectively nerfed by increasing unit size.
This would appear to confirm that stats are model dependant rather than unit dependant.
I had a unit of spears (150 men) upgraded and after the battle it was reduced to 139 men. As they had the small shield icon I thought that I could use some men from a unit that wasn't upgraded to refill it, supposing that the 11 men would automatically get the upgrade. And I made a save here.
After doing so I sent the unit inside the settlement with the armor upgrading building (the same that upgraded the unit) and the unit I just refilled was available for conversion at the cost of 4 florins. This makes me think that each men in a unit has its personal stats recorded so the 4F are for the upgrading of 11 men.
I didn't test it to see if the men on the battlefield all had the same armor in the same unit (I remember I did some time before and but I'm not sure)
I reloaded the save I made after refilling the upgraded unit and something strange happened : the shield icon disappeared. The entire unit lost it's upgrade ?
Unit stats are modelled on a soldier by soldier basis, hence why Hashashim with 16 attack, 21 defence, 2 hit points and 60 soldiers per unit on huge can match DFK with 13 attack, 21 defence and 120 soldiers on huge due to their 2 hit points, if they didn't have the 2 hit ponits they would lose easily. Or a better example would be Forlorn Hope who lose to DGK because they are half the unit size but don't have 2hp.
This was certainly the case in STW, every soldier in a unit had his own personal set of stats including what armour he is wearing, what quality of weapon he is using, how many men he had killed and how much experience he had gained as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by d3nn16
The unit banner merely displayed a indication of the average quality of the men in the unit. This eant that retraining a unit and adding raw recruits with poor armour would effectively reduce its overall fighting potential. But the few remaining veterans would still fight as well as ever.
This seems to have been 'nerfed' by CA at some point and now for saome reason new recruits magically assume to standard of veterans is there are veterans in the unit. I don't really understand the logic of this but that seems to be how the game works now.
Are there any examples to rely on for what you are saying ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Didz
What about the 4 florins conversion cost in the example I gave above ? Is there a reason for it ?
I often see variation in the cost of upgrading units that initially seem to have same armor and experience.
I have noticed when merging units of different upgrade and valour levels that the unit you are merging too keeps the same weapons/armour upgrades, but the valour upgrade changes according to the number of men you are adding and the relative valour value of the unit you have taken the men from.
To take an example using huge unit sizes. Unit A has a silver armour upgrade and a bronze weapon upgrade with 3 silver valour chevrons and has 80 men left out of 120.
Unit B has a bronze armour upgrade, no weapon upgrade and 3 bronze valourr chevrons, it also has 80 men left out of 120.
If i merge these two units to create 1 full strength unit and 1 unit at 1/3 strength, I will drag and drop them. If I drag and drop unit A onto unit B, I will have a 120 man unit with the same armour and weapon upgrades as unit A, but the valour amount will have gone down a bit(from experience probably from 3 silver chevrons to 1 or 2). If I drag and drop unit B onto unit A, I will end up with a 120 man unit with unit B's upgrades and (i think) the same amount of valour. I have seen the amount of valour chevrons reduce when I merge units of different stat's, but I cannot remember seeing the chevrons go up in value.
I would assume from this that the valour of a unit is taken as an average across it's members, so adding inexperienced men to it would lower the average.
so you guys are saying that in a unit some have the attack defence bonus from experience while others do not?
so what happens when you merge units? what happens to the veterans?
If a unit is merged, each individual man retains the same experience/armour/weapon stats, and the average is displayed on the unit card.
If a unit is retrained, all men added to the unit are introduced at the average experience level of the unit.
An interesting side effect is that a unit when it merges with another one, sends out its lesser members first. This causes the remainder of the merging unit to be of a merging unit to be of higher average quality (most noticeable in experience) than it was before.
This is a very usable effect: always fill up your depleted troops after a battle and send the remainder that is now of superior average experience to be retrained. Instant veteran superunit.