how do you use bill men properly?...they keep getting slaughterd,, my levy spearmen survive longer!!!!:wall: :wall:
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how do you use bill men properly?...they keep getting slaughterd,, my levy spearmen survive longer!!!!:wall: :wall:
Simply: don't use them. In the beginning levies are sufficient and later in the game you get armored swords. AS are among the best heavy infantry in the game so why use anything else.
Billmen don't have any use because they can't be used in an anti cavalry role and AS are better in mêlée.
Bollocks. Billmen are simply wonderful(post-patch). They have a wonderful charge, something the swordsmen lack. I usually put stakes at the front, longbows behind them and billmen behind the lowngbows, with cavalry on the flanks. When the longbows are about to be charged by the enemy infrantry, the billmen charge through them. They do a wonderful job at cutting the enemy up. They don't have as much staying power as swords or even spears though(heavy bills do), so they're more like cavalry with some additional staying power, the ability to charge though stakes, more men and better against spears.
Basically, they're the english anti-spearman unit. They're also wonderful flankers, although that job can be done with cavalry.
Sautee in garlic butter and serve with some crisp lettuce and a chillie dipping sauce... sorry I thought you said 'prawns'.
billmen .. billmen .. erm .. oooh I don't know ... they are pretty lame.
You have a point mate, but I just find it easier to use AS, they rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
So my advice to the OP, if you want less hassle just use AS.
Best use of billmen is for sticking up printed adverts on walls.
(for some reason the ones in the game have lost the brush on the end of their sticks.)
billmen are the infantry alternative to cavalry :2thumbsup:
Well of course they're much better than billmen... You have to compare them to heavy billmen, who actually have a lot of staying power. But compared to levy spearmen, bills are better by far. They do need to be combined with stakes(or even a spear screen, if you lack longbows). This is the early game we're talking about, and you'll face at best armoured spears. Billmen are more than capable of killing them. I'm playing the english now, and my french-killing army is 6 longbows, 5 bills, 1 mailed knight and a general, and it has done wonderful against much larger french armies... I usually take a whole lot of casualties though, and I need to retrain my men after a battle... But I see that as a good thing, as it keeps my blitzing in check :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by trickydicky
:laugh4: i never did like the billman. i hate to pay bills.:laugh4:
I'm with HoreTore on this one. For the time when Bills show up, they are a stroke of battlefield genius, especially since they're even cheaper to get than basic Levy Spearmen. The important points would be: try to avoid using them to take walls (they die like crazy to the tower fire - use a shielded unit instead), and don't let cavalry or archers have their way with the billmen, either wrecks them easily (again from lack of a shield). Preferably use them as flankers (this is especially useful in cities as they maneuver the streets infinitely better than cav) or they can be used as shock troops since their charge is very high. They break most early infantry units quite well, which makes them the perfect opposite of England's low level spears, who OTOH are better at wall taking, eating missiles, and stopping cav. They are, however, awful at killing other infantry, which is precisely what you should hire bills to do instead. You will of course tech up beyond them at some point, but as growth is lowered in 1.2 you should now get a good amount of use out of Billmen as primary melee troops until you can actually get to anything better. Of course England should also lean on archers a lot early since longbows are available, and an army full of primarily longbows and billmen is a winning combination, as in HoreTore's example. I would personally probably want a few spears somewhere in there, but you definitely shouldn't do without the archers or the bills.
thanks for the info guysm, i shant send them up the ladders any more, i'l get get some welsh spear men to do that...do any of you use the scotish mercenary gaglioch ( cant remem name (at work ;-) shhhh))
does any use mercs as cannon fooder? hire them before a battle then send them in as cannon fodder?
I do not use any unit for cannon fodder if I can help it. They all cost money. Only in one narrow situation usually. Getting the AI to attack from across a bridge.
Depends on the Merc in question. Generally, they have high upkeep relative to their stats, so I don't want to keep paying them turn after turn. On the other hand, some mercs, like Crossbowmen, represent a unit type stronger than you may be able to access for many turns, or at all (Turkomans). Those are sometimes worth hanging on to.
Welsh Spearmen and the like though, I just use as quick force multipliers. Let em die. I love cruising around South Eastern Europe and recruiting a horde of Slav Levies and Balkan Archers. Sure, they're crap, but most armies in that region are composed of elite calvary, and being able to whip out several hundred foot units just in time to besiege a town or stall a larger army is great. :2thumbsup:
can you get merc elephants from any where? like you could in rome tw?
Yes, they're available near baghdad after the timurid invasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogie
After getting M2TW two days ago, then playing for 14 hours straight as the english, I think the games wicked (I patched to 1.2 before playing). Playing on H/H difficulty.
Billmen I noticed are purely offensive units (just look at their stats). I found them great against spears, but also against cavalry units, as long as the Billmen were attacking and not being charged (engage Cav with spears, and I then attacked the stalled cavalry with Billmen. Didn't seem to matter much if it was from front or the side).
Like whats already posted, found them weak against walls, except where my catapaults destroyed all the towers and Longbows dealt to the archers on the walls before I Launched the Bills into the attack.
So yea. I think best used as early offensive infantry, supported by Longbows/Crossbows, flanked by spears and with Cavalry to provide a screening force. I use vastly different tactics in defence when I have Billmen, but I replaced the non-experienced units of Bills with armoured swords and dismounted knights when I got them.
Yeah, leaving them in combat is a mistake since they don't have the defense to handle it. Best to have them charge (preferably flanking an otherwise occupied unit), and if the recepient of the charge doesn't rout or isn't decimated, put them on Guard and then pull them back to charge again---they're even worse for micromanaging than cavalry, really, but that's to be expected since they're so cheap. But with a proper charge, they can really hack things to bits.