Brothels for EB2?

I've heard that M2 has Brothel buildings in it, which you can build in your cities (not sure what bonuses they offer though, although as a guess I'd say +happiness, +squalor, -law, +pop growth).

Anyway, will EB2 follow suit? As you guys want to be historically accurate, I don't see why you shouldn't (as although I'm no expert on history, I do know that prostitution wasn't invented in the Middle Ages...).

And more to the point, how come EB1 doesn't have them now? Does M2 have a higher limit for the max. number of different buildings you can have, or offer different types of bonuses?

Cheers! :beam:

Thats a very specialized building and I highly doubt, given that there are so many more important buildings in need of representation, that we will include brothels in EB2. Besides, brothels and prostitution were hardly ever, if at all, state sponsored (except as part of religion - the temples of Anahita in Hayasdan for example), so I doubt they would be suitable as a building choice.

I would much prefer a minting building.

Foot

Don't say no yet, Foot. This is our chance to get some money from the fans for "research" into the subject.

:rolleyes:

But seriously, what sort of buildings were you looking to include? Wouldn't a mint (i.e. a building that can just churn out loads of money) kinda ruin the game? Is there any way to get buildings to "pop up" or force themselves on you - e.g. with enough pop growth, brothels just "appear"? And what about those limits - are you close to the maximum building limit ATM? Is the situation better in M2?

Cheers! :beam:

Mints seem very possible.

One good thing will be that we will be able to split apart some of the complexes we have now - we have so many buildings that are 'doubled up' that need to have their own complexes that it will be very good to have their own. More faction-specific monument structures might be good too. We will just wait and see. We haven't done EDB coding for MTW2 yet. Things like guilds might make their way in too in some other quite different manner though. It has potential for sure.

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Originally Posted by I Am Herenow

:rolleyes:

But seriously, what sort of buildings were you looking to include? Wouldn't a mint (i.e. a building that can just churn out loads of money) kinda ruin the game? Is there any way to get buildings to "pop up" or force themselves on you - e.g. with enough pop growth, brothels just "appear"? And what about those limits - are you close to the maximum building limit ATM? Is the situation better in M2?

Cheers! :beam:

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Um, mints don't churn out money :dizzy2: They churn out coins. Coins are a formal bartering system that reflects the wealth of a nation and its population. Take the UK Pound Sterling for example, though its a rather a misleading name now, when it was first devised a One Pound Sterling Coin was equal in value to 1 Pound (lb) of Sterling Silver. Silver was used as a bartering medium back then, and this was formalised (for many different reasons, not least for Public Relations) into a coinage system. Making more coins doesn't make more silver, it floods the market and devalues the currency.

Basically, economy began when when people began producing more goods than they could consume (usually by focusing on one trade or task), the surplus of which they could trade for goods they did need. As a market economy became bigger some sort of system was needed to codify the thing. Weights were very important, but even more so was the discovery of Pi as regards discovering the circumference of a circle. This allowed storage containers to made to equal volume so that liquids, such as wine, but most importantly grains, could be measured consistently. Grains were important (barley, wheat etc) as they had an inherent value for the common people (they can be used to make bread and other foodstuffs). Eventually, as economies got richer (and in particular due to an increasingly urbanised population) the first coins were minted, which served the same purpose as the jars of grain, they represented the wealth of a nation and of a particular person, but they were much easier to carry around.

Basically a coin is either made of the valuable material (metal, silver, even iron), whose weight is standardised and given the stamp of authority, or, as nowadays, it is a base metal whose value is guaranteed by by the state. In other words, a state could not just mint loads of coins and say that they had the same value as before unless they had the wealth to back it up. Except for the US, that is, because they have a magic chequebook, which is one of the most fantastic things ever!

Coins are an indication of wealth, but you cannot create wealth with coins (unless you forge them of course).

And yes, we can use the script to drop buildings after certain conditions (though afaik we cannot check city population), but what is your obsession with brothels all about. There are lots of buildings which hold equal status with brothels (important in the community - not necessarily in a good way - but not state funded). We have hit the limit for RTW, as regards building complexes, but I don't know the limit in MTW2.

Foot

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Mints seem very possible.

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Mints would be so cool! It was an indication of independence if a satrap started minting their own coins, which would be great if we could replicate in game.

Foot

OK, I understand what mints were for in real life, but I still don't see what they could do in-game (other than improve your standing or something if you use M2 diplomacy) if they don't churn out money and you get money anyway (albeit rather randomly if you think about it) from trading stuff with people.

Probably law bonuses. If the local population know who the issuing authority is by name, but also have a face to put to that name, they would then know who is the rightful ruler.

Might be some happiness bonuses as well. If a city can have a mint it is a sign of wealth and strong economy.

A small tax bonus would be suitable, it is much easier to tax a populace if they all use the same formal currency. Also having your own mint was a sign of independence and was a sign of wealth and power, so a happiness bonus wouldn't go amiss either.

But let me get this straight, you would rather have a brothel (with rather bogus bonuses I might add) over a mint (an important build in the history of market economy).

As I said, they formalise your economy, act as PR for the ruler whose stamp (usually head) appears on the coin, among other things.

Foot

certainly the most important aspect would be the improvement in trade.

I never said I'd rather have one instead of a mint, and I just brought up brothels because I read in a Gamespy article (I think) about them and realised that they were around in Roman times too.

But my question really is, what new buildings are you looking to implement in future versions of EB1 and in EB2?

Right now we are up against the building limit for EB, so new buildings are few and far between - most everything current is locked in.

As for EB2, we are still learning how to mod the system, so the conceptual stuff is far, far out there right now. We aren't holding back here, we just don't have anything to tell you.

There are new buildings in the next release though - a good many of them actually, but they are not new complexes. Some factions get more than others though, but I think at least all factions have one new level for a building we have currently got already.

I would consider brothels an integrated things in every city on the map. We don't have separate butcher shops etc. either.

What might be interesting, if the building limits are higher in MTW2, is the opportunity to build special prestige buildings in cities with high population numbers. They should be obscenely expensive and long-lasting projects which provide bonuses to the faction leader and to the city. Especially income benefits probably.

rgds/EoE

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Originally Posted by EoE

What might be interesting, if the building limits are higher in MTW2, is the opportunity to build special prestige buildings in cities with high population numbers. They should be obscenely expensive and long-lasting projects which provide bonuses to the faction leader and to the city. Especially income benefits probably.

rgds/EoE

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You mean like a national wonder? That would be cool, but there'd have to be a separate version for each faction then (and all based on some real-life building) :yes:

Speaking of new buildings, did you guys ever get those barbarian stone walls worked out?

Shouldn't the Brothels be part of the Taverns? Thats were I pick up my wenches anyway.:laugh4:

IIRC: right now, the 'advanced' taverns act as brothels as well.

Historicaly prostitution exist in antiquity, particulary in carthago where they work for a temple and there where male and female prostitutes:bulb2:

Make this building for few faction can be historical but i don't know if it exist in other cultures

Necro!! Besides, if there prostitutes in the temple then that would be included in that temple building, not in a seperate building, right?

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Originally Posted by Foot

A small tax bonus would be suitable, it is much easier to tax a populace if they all use the same formal currency. Also having your own mint was a sign of independence and was a sign of wealth and power, so a happiness bonus wouldn't go amiss either.

But let me get this straight, you would rather have a brothel (with rather bogus bonuses I might add) over a mint (an important build in the history of market economy).

As I said, they formalise your economy, act as PR for the ruler whose stamp (usually head) appears on the coin, among other things.

Foot

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Besides the direct effects of the building I would think a mint also increase the chances of certain traits for govenors, specifically ones that decrease loyalty (maybe dependent on ethnicity) and make FM slightly easier to corrupt, bribe, and get greedy/extravagant. Mints would be a much beeter choice for role playing purposes then brothels I think. So it becomes a tradeoff a relatively cheap way to increase economic and social stability but with a decrease in political stability. Make the player really consider if the choice is worth their while.

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But let me get this straight, you would rather have a brothel (with rather bogus bonuses I might add) over a mint (an important build in the history of market economy).

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Hey, we're men, nay?

Yeah, that´s why we all love the Gaesatae so much, isn´t it?

Hmmm... I don't know if I like where this is going...

Anyway, the minting complex sounds like a more interesting alternative to me. Both in terms of historical realism, and because of the bonuses it would provide for the faction.

The other function of the Brothel/Inn/etc. is to provide a shady place for recruiting shady people, so I suppose if the Brothel was done away with in the next mod, would the Assassins and Spies be recruited at the Market again, or...?