Scythed Chariots

Allmost every battle I use Scythed chariots they make me win, but after cripple the enemy always run amock or rout and suffer so many losses that makes them a kind of suicide weapon... I would like to start an Pontus campain (at least at the next release), but I would not like to have to buy an new chariots unit after every battle...
So, before thinking in stat changes, since I know the EB team always do everything for an reason I would like to know how did they performed in real historical battles, and in other players battles to know if they realy were suicide weapon or if I'm using they in the wrong way.
I use them mostly as I use elephants, as an psycological weapon, an heavy hammer to charge engaged enemys from flanks or behind or just send them to trample the enemy in consecutive charges until they rout but unlike elephant they almost always end the battle routing or in amock.

To historians: How did they performed in real battles?

To other chariot users: How do you use them and how they perform?

I have used them to great sucess in mp, and then they are suicied weapons, and of course then there is far less incentive to keep them alive, though.

In Casse case, i usualy just parked them nearby , since they intimidate enemy enough to rout(on VH/M). After they rout i chase them down.

Off course, while they are parked , they use their ranged weapons..Thats with Casse ones , never played Pontus, since i am waiting for final roster.Never had any running amok that way.

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Originally Posted by Pharnakes

I have used them to great sucess in mp, and then they are suicied weapons, and of course then there is far less incentive to keep them alive, though.

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Yes,I remember you using them once.Suprised me,I didn't know they were in Eb.Anyways,to stay on topic,I never really tried them except once in MP.They didn't fare well.All I know is don't try straight on.Might try them again sometime.But if there really suicide units,it might not be best to use them alot.Must be expenisve to have to keep building them.

EDIT:Ignore me.Apparently everyone else here knows more about them me.But,like I said,I only used them once.So what did I know about them.

I find that scythed chariots' best use is head-on assault on the best unit in sight. Every missile unit of the enemy will pepper your chariots and hit their comrades in the back, unless the player manages to redirect their fire in time. Once they've made contact, they're done for. Anyway, chariots in general are not finished yet, their stats will change to make them less brittle.

I personally prefer to use the scythed chariots as flank guards. They will simply decimate almost any unit of heavy cav. Once they've taken care of the enemies cav I usually manuever them to the flank of the battle line and let them roll down it. Usually results in a rout and not many losses for the chariots. Never let them stop if their attacking, if they get bogged down pull them out.

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In Casse case, i usualy just parked them nearby , since they intimidate enemy enough to rout(on VH/M). After they rout i chase them down.

Off course, while they are parked , they use their ranged weapons..Thats with Casse ones , never played Pontus, since i am waiting for final roster.Never had any running amok that way.

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Yes, park them its also other option and also effective, but its better with missile chariots than Scythed ones... Also, chariot archers werent used in EB time frame or are still being made? In other mod I've played before EB, the Extended Greeks mod, they also have disapeared, so I supose they werent used in this time frame...
And celtic chariots, after vannilla, in EB, in BI and in other mods I've seen doesnt have blades anymore... I've read in more than one place historees about Britain cheftains using them (Boudica and other one I dont remember the name), so they were used only on small an non significant numbers?

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I find that scythed chariots' best use is head-on assault on the best unit in sight. Every missile unit of the enemy will pepper your chariots and hit their comrades in the back, unless the player manages to redirect their fire in time. Once they've made contact, they're done for.

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Also an suicide attack, they will not survive the missil rain... Usualy with elephants or chariots I only use them after take care of most of enemy's missil units or away from them...

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Anyway, chariots in general are not finished yet, their stats will change to make them less brittle.

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That's cool!! I was thinking it was intencional to have them so brittle so I didnt start asking about their stats to not look like I was just complaining and trolling... I love the EB stats system, I just think the chariots should be stronger, they look quite an fearsome weapon....

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I personally prefer to use the scythed chariots as flank guards. They will simply decimate almost any unit of heavy cav.

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Realy? I usualy only use them after have the flanks secured....

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Once they've taken care of the enemies cav I usually manuever them to the flank of the battle line and let them roll down it. Usually results in a rout and not many losses for the chariots. Never let them stop if their attacking, if they get bogged down pull them out.

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Thats more less how I use them... But yes, they usualy rout when they get bogged in the battle confusion... I'll try to avoid it in the future, but since I'm starting to play with General's view camera it will be an little harder...



And I still want to hear how they were used in real life... I only know about one battle were they've fighted and it was agaisnt Alexander so... :clown:

IRL they were sometimes apparently surprisingly effective, even in small numbers. They seem to have generally failed, occasionally spectacularly, in major engagements, but on the other hand one would think people didn't keep trying with the costly things if there wasn't some value in them.

I believe their historical usage was a frontal charge to the enemy's main line, where they tried to create a gap for the following infantry. I personally use them as a spearhead for heavy cavalry charges. I have the chariots up front, the general leading the heavy cavalry behind them with light cavalry on both sides, if possible. The light cavalry hunts down skirmishers and scares a path for the assault force, which goes around the enemy's left flank and finally hits them to the back or side once the actual battlelines are engaged. As Seleucids, scythed chariots, general's bodyguards, hetairoi with prodromoi on the wings will do any army in seconds, especially if the enemy gets pushed against a phalanx line.

I have always imagine you could stear them against some phalanx head on, and have heavy inf engaged throw the holes the create. Ofc it would be a suicide mission, but the heavy inf should have a good change.

From what I understand, chariots are best used to "charge through" the enemy lines; that is, you order them to charge to a position behind the enemy line; once the enemy is severely disrupted, you follow up, IMMEDIATELY, with a heavy infantry charge to break the line. It's really tricky, but if pulled off properly, it works, bigtime.

Just so you all know, our stats for scythed chariots have been completetly redone (actually, they never were done). They have the potential to be devastating (not so much in terms of kills but instead just disrupting the enemy formations) if used properly, but are more likely to run amok and cause problems in your own lines or get decimated by missile fire.

Out of curiosity, what are the general outlines of how they're supposed to be statted in EB ? Something along the lines of the improved Casse bodyguards, ie. fairly high armour for the "mount" etc. ?

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They will simply decimate almost any unit of heavy cav.

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Wow, thats true!!! They are amazing cavalry killers!!!!! They just cut in pieces any heavy cavalry unit in few seconds!!!! I've tryed agaisnt Equites extroardinary, Hetairoi and Parthian late elite catrafacts, and always winned with few losses!!!! And that seems logical, the blades would cut the enemy horse's legs making them useless....

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Just so you all know, our stats for scythed chariots have been completetly redone (actually, they never were done). They have the potential to be devastating (not so much in terms of kills but instead just disrupting the enemy formations) if used properly, but are more likely to run amok and cause problems in your own lines or get decimated by missile fire.

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Now that I was happy with the actual stats, lol.... But I'm sure the EB team will do an amasing job with it!!!