How do I stop these Scythians?
It's 204BC, I'm playing as Rome and I have just finished getting Carthage where I want them- as a little buffer state with Egypt.
As usual Macedon and Koinen Hellonen are a feudin' and a fightin' themselves into the ground and Getai have started steamrolling Macedon.
Typically Roman as I play, I hate the idea of a superpower on my border (I have Illyria), so I go to intervene on behalf of Macedon. Declaring war on the Getians I have relieved Epirus (I wiped out the Epirotes 50 years ago and gave it to Macedon to prevent them dying and leaving me with a strong neighbour) but the Macedonian homelands are now looking very brown. Instead of the usual Rhompia-fest, the Getai are fielding mainly horse archer armies.
Clearly, archer on pony is a good look this season because the Sauromatae have come in north of Dacia and attacked me unprovoked (that's not a surprise).
I've fought two battles with them so far and am getting slaughtered. It's the normal problem- heavy cavalry can't catch them, light cavalry don't get close.
Is there any strategy that doesn't involve spamming them in a war of attrition?
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
I would say get some archers and slingars with your armies and let your achers concentrate on the same unit at that would do the trick
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
That's awesome. Granted, having some mixed getai armies would be better, but having them "ally" with HA groups/tribes's and having the Sarmatians come after you too is a pretty neat twist.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
If you can't defeat them in the open with regular troops, then get some local auxiliaries to help you. Sufficient slingers and archers behind a strong line of heavy infantry (don't forget the testudo) is pretty much impregnable against horse-archers armies. Keeping a reserve of cavalry is essential in the later parts of the battle so keep them fresh and strike only when needed.
Or fight defensively in fortified towns. And then go directly after theirs. Navy helps.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
I have a tendency to put the slingers in open order in the first line (so they don't shoot friendlies in the back) and the archers right behind them. Preferably the spear/bow types. Both are taken off skirmish mode. Thus, HAs who wander close get a double dose of fire and if they decide to charge they'll get counter-charged by the archer-spearmen. With the addition of some decent line infantry and AP-toting fast units (both horse and foot) I was easily enough regularly able to pwnz0r the Parthians as Baktria... heck, by the time I eliminated them the "heaviest" unit (not counting the bodyguards) in my armies was still Nizag Gunds...
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
If he's being attacked he can prepare his slingers on a higher elevation. If none are present, then I like them on my left, with cav behind it.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm
If you can't defeat them in the open with regular troops, then get some local auxiliaries to help you. Sufficient slingers and archers behind a strong line of heavy infantry (don't forget the testudo) is pretty much impregnable against horse-archers armies. Keeping a reserve of cavalry is essential in the later parts of the battle so keep them fresh and strike only when needed.
Or fight defensively in fortified towns. And then go directly after theirs. Navy helps.
There is no testudo in 204 BC.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Having superior firepower is definitely the least headache-inducing way to deal with skirmishing cavalry. I normally eschew missile troops in my current (Romani) game, but in western North Africa I happily spam slingers. Numidian cavalry is just so annoying if you aren't able to mow them down with missiles.
Horse archers are obviously more dangerous, but just back your slingers up with some heavy infantry in case they get charged and you should be fine. Cavalry isn't really necessary in this situation, except to pursue any routing infantry they may have and perhaps slaughter their foot skirmishers, if your own don't deal with them.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
this is interesting as in my hysadan save, ~30 years on the getai are still a single province state. i was wondering if there was always something wrong with them.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
this is interesting as in my hysadan save, ~30 years on the getai are still a single province state. i was wondering if there was always something wrong with them.
it's the same in all of my campagains they never seem to get out of debt till between 240~200 then they begin to slaughter :laugh4:
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
If I still had the file you would say wtf . I as rome fought a super power Parthia . One that controlled 1/2 of the map . I **** myself at the non-stop steel catatanks I fought .
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Just as bad as carthage. I have made peace with them 3 times now... and still they do wish for peace but I have now taken their land (some) and now going to elimate their faction leader :P I have simply been sending forces north and taken over the settlements. Made peace with alot of nations.
https://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1381/image1zn3.jpg
Progress
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeran
It's 204BC, I'm playing as Rome and I have just finished getting Carthage where I want them- as a little buffer state with Egypt.
As usual Macedon and Koinen Hellonen are a feudin' and a fightin' themselves into the ground and Getai have started steamrolling Macedon.
Typically Roman as I play, I hate the idea of a superpower on my border (I have Illyria), so I go to intervene on behalf of Macedon. Declaring war on the Getians I have relieved Epirus (I wiped out the Epirotes 50 years ago and gave it to Macedon to prevent them dying and leaving me with a strong neighbour) but the Macedonian homelands are now looking very brown. Instead of the usual Rhompia-fest, the Getai are fielding mainly horse archer armies.
Clearly, archer on pony is a good look this season because the Sauromatae have come in north of Dacia and attacked me unprovoked (that's not a surprise).
I've fought two battles with them so far and am getting slaughtered. It's the normal problem- heavy cavalry can't catch them, light cavalry don't get close.
Is there any strategy that doesn't involve spamming them in a war of attrition?
Try sending a legion into their territories and a good general too so that you can set up a series of watch towers, build a fort and send out a few scouts to instigate combat with near by men, have the fort forces within enough range to come in as relief support or better still intise them into siegeing the camp, archer cavalry are terrible at sieges.
This isnt so much battlefield strategy advise more just macropolitical strategic advice for keeping them away from your precious cities and those of your dearest allies.
As for taking down enemy armies without conquering their lands? 1) you can hire units of cavalry archers to combat them 2) you can imploy a good sturdy heavily armored infantry force to absorb most of their arrows while they are backed by decently ranged missle support such as slingers or archers. or 3) my personal favorite when dealing with annoying cavalry, get yourself a group of heavily armored cavalry and hire a fair number of very light and swift cavalry, and simply use them to catch up with and pin down the enemy cavalry archers then send your slower and heavier cavalry in to finish them off.
Imagine it as sort of grabbing your enemy by the genitals and then head butting their skull off their shoulders.
P.S. this is one of my favorite tactics in Medieval 2 online and has won me many victories especially against pesky cav archer like factions.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by russia almighty
If I still had the file you would say wtf . I as rome fought a super power Parthia . One that controlled 1/2 of the map . I **** myself at the non-stop steel catatanks I fought .
I envy you, I'm playing the Aedui and I literally can't wait until the Romans achive their full strength.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
If you don't like spamming missile troop and want to try something slightly different then this is a tactic that has worked for me.
Bump up the proportion of javelin-armed auxilia - if you are fighting in Getai lands then there should be plenty of suitable mercenaries available. Make sure they have shields (otherwise they will just make good pincushions).
Put your javelin-men in loose order on a wide front with skirmish mode switched off and run them at the enemy horse archers. Follow up with heavy infantry and your general (for moral support).
Keep a reserve wing to hold off the rest of the enemy army while you are dealing with the horse archers.
Because you can cover such a large area with your skirmishers, it is possible to trick the horse archers into engaging (you may have to organise them into two wings to achieve this).
Once the skirmishers are engaged, pile in with heavy infantry and kill the pesky horse archers.
Although this is a risky tactic, it is much more satisfying on an emotional level than just pelting them with sling stones or overwhelming them with cavalry.
PS. This also works against the Getai bodyguards - as long as you are quick enough with the heavy infantry.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvenal
If you don't like spamming missile troop and want to try something slightly different then this is a tactic that has worked for me.
Bump up the proportion of javelin-armed auxilia - if you are fighting in Getai lands then there should be plenty of suitable mercenaries available. Make sure they have shields (otherwise they will just make good pincushions).
Put your javelin-men in loose order on a wide front with skirmish mode switched off and run them at the enemy horse archers. Follow up with heavy infantry and your general (for moral support).
Keep a reserve wing to hold off the rest of the enemy army while you are dealing with the horse archers.
Because you can cover such a large area with your skirmishers, it is possible to trick the horse archers into engaging (you may have to organise them into two wings to achieve this).
Once the skirmishers are engaged, pile in with heavy infantry and kill the pesky horse archers.
Although this is a risky tactic, it is much more satisfying on an emotional level than just pelting them with sling stones or overwhelming them with cavalry.
PS. This also works against the Getai bodyguards - as long as you are quick enough with the heavy infantry.
One of the interesting enough things about the nature of the historical accuracy mode is that basically wherever you have a certain warrior style in a certain region that you can bet your bottom dollar that the surrounding lands that have not fallent to this warrior style will have some sort of recruitable mercinary unit that has a counter style.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I've gone with using heavily armoured infantry in front and medium/heavy cavalry (Greek Hippeis in this case, backed up with Equites and bodyguard cavalry when available). Initially I just moved the Principes line in front of the Hastati line, with peltasts as skirmishers. But now I've had time to bring in reinforcements, the line up includes cretan archers, Iosetae (is it me, or do these guys outperform the famous Balearics?) and hoplites as allies (I'm fighting for those Macedonians, they might as well help out- by being arrow stoppers).
This has dropped the infantry losses a lot. Cavalry always suffers still.
The Getai have dropped the cavalry count a bit, maybe they realised that this fighting is mainly taking place in mountains.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Maybe try the lightest (3span) catapults. They have great range and power.
Re: How do I stop these Scythians?
Unavlible as romans, but effective against AI horse archers.
