A play by the children of Gaza
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That's indeed very cute, they even have miniature AKs! :laugh4:
When your degraded and reduced to nothing you have no where else to turn but extremism. It's incredibly sad that they are brainwashed to hate from a young age. But you'd be naive to think that the Jewish children aren't also taught to hate from a young age.
Geez, just can't wait to pull out incorrect excuses, can you?Quote:
When your degraded and reduced to nothing you have no where else to turn but extremism.
So two wrongs make a right? And what proof do you have of this? I've never seen an Israeli child wearing toy bomb vests or performing in hate plays.Quote:
But you'd be naive to think that the Jewish children aren't also taught to hate from a young age.
CR
Makes cowboys and indians look rather tame.
I wonder how much detail they go into playing doctors and nurses...
And you never will either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
How about this?
Palestinian Kindergarten Graduation
Its the same event. Anyone know what language that is?
Heres a different one
Muslim Kindergarten Graduation Ceremony
I've seen a school of 8 year old Israeli Jews yell in unison "Death to all Arabs!", I've also seen Jewish kids brainwashed via their parents. I'll have to find the name of the documentary, it was very good because it showed how fundamentally wrong both sides are and how futile the situation is because neither side will accept or respect the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
Look at Germany after the depression, the extreme conditions caused a breeding ground for the rise of Nazism. The poverty and terrible state of Russia at the turn of the century created a breeding ground for Bolshevism. Palestine is no different, they feel they've been wronged and they feel degraded. They turn to violence to get their message out, they turn on Israel because they see it as unjustly placed upon where they rightfully belong.Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
Edit: There are atrocities on both sides, Jewish soldiers shooting refugee's in their camps, the refusal of refugee's to return, etcetera. And on the other side Palestinians and Arabs killing innocent Israeli Jews and Arabs in car bomb and suicide blasts, and kidnapping reporters, soldiers, engineers etcetera. The real problem is that there is no solution because neither side will ever except they have done wrong or will forgive the wrongs of the other.
Show us some clips then? Or at least some link.Quote:
I've seen a school of 8 year old Israeli Jews yell in unison "Death to all Arabs!",
LINKQuote:
Incitement, Antisemitism and Hatred of Israel
in Palestinian School Textbooks
(November 2001)
Main Points:
*
The textbooks used in the Palestinian Authority school system, from elementary through high school, are replete with strong expressions of hatred towards Israel, negation of its right to exist and praise for the struggle against it, as well as antisemitic expressions against the Jews.
*
In these textbooks, Israel is described as "a country of gangs, born in crime." The Jews are arrogant and sly traitors, and Zionism is a racist movement and a "germ."
*
From this point of view, the Oslo Accords are described as "a move to get the Palestine Liberation Army into the territories," and support for jihad is emphasized.
*
Thus, Palestinian youth are educated from birth in an atmosphere of religious and nationalist incitement, with no trace of anything positive regarding Israel, which results in a deepening of their hatred towards Israel, a fanning of the flames of violence and encouragement and justification of terrorism against the State of Israel and against Jews.
Elaboration
1. In the eight years that have elapsed since the establishment of the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian educational system has been using Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks. It is only in the past academic year that the Palestinian Ministry of Education has added textbooks to the curriculum that were specially written for the 1st and 6th grades and this year, according to reports, for the 2nd and 7th grades as well.
2. The Jordanian textbooks, intended for all students in high schools and most of the classes in the elementary schools, abound in expressions of incitement and hatred that were reintroduced when the educational system was transferred from Israeli to Palestinian responsibility. These books are indicative of the "war to the death" mentality against Israel and Zionism and everything that they represent.
3. Following are some examples of incitement, hatred towards Israel and antisemitism, according to subject:
1. The Jewish people - the textbooks are replete with antisemitic expressions of hatred and hostility towards the Jewish people, including references from the Koran attesting to the corrupt, dishonest character of the Jews, who are also anti-Islam. They claim that, according to the Talmud, the Jews believe that the human animal was created to serve them and that it is permitted to deceive the gentiles, who have satanic souls.
2. Jerusalem - Israelis covet Jerusalem above all else. They burned the Al Aksa mosque in 1969 as part of the Zionist plan to take control of Haram al-Sharif (the Temple Mount) and to destroy the Muslim buildings there, in order to build their Temple. It is incumbent on the Arab army to liberate the mosques from the thieving conqueror.
3. Zionism - Zionism is a threat to the Arabs, and all Arabs are obligated to fight it; the Zionist germ must be expunged from the Arab nation. Teachers’ guides for the 10th and 12th grades explain that Zionism is a racist movement that aspires to Judaize Palestine by expelling its Arab residents. Furthermore, Zionist ideology is more racist, extremist and aggressive than other ideologies (of the 20th century) and established a Jewish political entity in Palestine that threatens the security of the Arab homeland.
4. Jihad - already in the 2nd grade, Palestinian pupils learn that Jordanian young men are eager to sacrifice their lives for the jihad, to defend the Arab character of Palestine. Another textbook states that the Arabs and the Muslims will fight the Jews who evicted them from their homes. In the 8th grade, the students learn that the usurpers have crossed all boundaries and therefore the time has come for jihad, to unsheathe the sharp sword.
The Iz a-Din al-Kassam receives much praise in descriptions of Palestinian bravery, and the battle of Karama is described as resulting from the Zionist lust for expansion. Stone-throwers are also glorified in these books.
5. Israel - The name "Israel" does not appear on the maps, and Jewish cities are not mentioned. Tel Aviv is called "Jaffa." In the 5th grade, discussion is devoted to the question: Why must we fight the Jews and expel them from our land? In the 7th grade, the children learn that 1948 was the year of "the Great Crime," when "the gang state" was established by seizing control of cities and villages and mistreating the residents.
6. The "Right of Return" - Eighth-graders are taught a song about Jaffa, promising to return from the diaspora and the prisons. An 8th grade history textbook explains that Israel’s close ties with imperialism made its establishment possible.
4. Although there is a certain moderation of the militant terminology in the textbooks edited by the PA, they contain no recognition of Israel. Expressions of an Anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish character are still to be found in them, although in an ambiguous and insinuated way.
5. Some of the negative elements found in the textbooks are described below:
1. No recognition of Israel - Israel is not mentioned as a state, but rather in the context of issues such as the settlements and use of natural resources, or wars and investigations. The borders of the state are not delineated and its name does not appear on maps, which bear the name "Palestine". Some maps contain the names of cities that existed before the establishment of the state; others show Jewish settlements only in the territories, but do not reflect the true situation there.
2. The Palestinian ambition to rule over all of the Land of Israel - A photograph of the city of Jaffa identifies it as a Palestinian city, and a picture of the Al-Jazzar mosque in Akko bears the caption: "Palestine is Our Land." Students are expected to aspire to the unification of Palestine and to understand that the Palestinians, descendants of the Canaanites, have first rights to the land.
3. The struggle against Israel - the "Right Of Return" - The textbooks state that the refugee camps are temporary quarters, until the residents return to the places that they were forced to abandon. One book contains a song praising Iz a-Din al-Kassam as the heroic figure of the struggle. Jihad is taught as a value for the citizen who desires to defend his homeland. Using any and all available means is presented as a religious imperative, and anyone killed in the course of defending his homeland becomes a "shaheed" (martyr) - all this is included in a textbook for the 6th grade.
4. The Oslo Accords - The accords are described as a move that enabled the Palestinian liberation army to entrench itself in the territories. Principles such as normalization and coexistence are, of course, not even mentioned.
6. In the eight years since the signing of the Oslo Accords, another generation of pupils has been educated to believe that the establishment of the State of Israel was "the Big Crime" and that the Palestinians, together with the Arab and Muslim states, must fight it to "the death."
7. The pace at which the PA is working to change the content of the textbooks is slow and does not reveal much enthusiasm, to say the least, towards fulfilling the explicit Palestinian commitment "to educate pupils in the spirit of the peace agreement." That the PA is dealing with this subject unwillingly, under Israeli and international pressure, is obvious from the meagerness of the results.
ADDENDUM
I. Name of book:
Al-Mutalaa Wa-Al-Nussous Al-Adabia, for the 8th grade
Page 117:
* Everything previously written leads to the conclusion that Zionism constitutes a threat to all Arabs and must be fought by each and every Arab.
* Zionism is poised to take over the rest of Jerusalem and its holy sites and, thereafter, to continue, step by step, to complete its control of Palestine. In the third stage, it will invade Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and the rest of the Arab states. This will happen unless the Arabs take serious steps to exterminate the Zionist germ and thrust this evil out of the Arab homeland. If the Arabs ignore the danger that threatens them with destruction and avoid taking the necessary action, they will share the same fate as that of their Palestinian brothers.
II. Name of book:
Al-Mutalaa Wa-Al-Nussous Al-Adabia for the 8th grade
Page 120:
* My brother, the oppressor has crossed the line and the time has come for jihad and martyrdom.
III. Name of book:
Lughatuna Al-Arabia, for the 7th grade
Part 2, page 17:
* The year 1948 is known as the year of the "Great Crime", when the "gang state" was established by means of invasion and conquest of towns and villages and abuse of their residents. Examples of this are the Dir Yassin massacre, the Kibya massacre, the Kafr Kassem massacre and others.
IV. Name of book:
Altarbia Alwanya, for the 6th grade
* Page 15:
a. Photo: The jihad-fighter, Iz a-Din al-Kassam
b. A map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza strip.
* Page 8:
Map entitled "Geography of Palestine" (no marked borders; showing cities in the West Bank and Gaza and cities in Israel such as Jaffa, Haifa, Akko and Nazareth, as in one unit).
Document prepared by a team from the Office of the Advisor for Palestinian Affairs, the Civilian Administration in Judea and Samaria.
Please provide similar items from Israeli text books towards Palestinians.
I cant imagine why. But are they taught this in school and does the state sponsor it? I can understand Palestinian children being mad at Israelis . But to teach them hate in school is just wrong.Quote:
I've seen a school of 8 year old Israeli Jews yell in unison "Death to all Arabs!
Gawain, I know that the Palestinian's teach hatred, you don't need to prove it to me. I know they do.
I'll try find the name of the documentary, all I can remember at the moment is that it's British and shows the conflict from both perspectives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
I'll look now, Avi Schlaim is a good historian, he's got plenty of facts I can quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
IIRC it was a small school in Gaza before the area was handed back to the Arabs, so it certainly wasn't state sponsored. But it was basically parents forcing their beliefs on small children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
I'm not saying that what the Arabs do is right. On the contrary I'm saying what they do is absolutely wrong. But there are too sides to every coin, and that Israel hasn't got clean hands in this conflict. They do their share of the dirty work. Now I'm of to find some hard facts which all so dearly love.
Edit: From a historian's perspective that article would be tainted with bias since it comes from a Jewish website. It's still valid but with every source the author, motives and perspective must be taken into account. So it's motive would be to portray themselves as victims and justify their cause. So I would take it with a grain of salt, as I would if I saw something published by and Arab on a website or a video because their hate and indignation would certainly play a part in it's composition.
It's futile, Rythmic. :shifty: The Backroom hasn't had its fix of Palestine-bashing and Israel-bashing for a while now; and, you know, repeating the same stuff from last two weeks, last month, and probably last year is going to create a vibrant debate. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
Call me back to the topic when Jerusalem is finally nuked.
Tell me about it. We should just bang both sides heads together and tell them to stop being so futile. :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Hey Im not saying the Israelis are saints but again I dont see any where near the hatred there, Again 2 million arabs live there as citizens. They are generals in the Israeli army. You guys try to make out as if their equal.
This one is also fun, ask Aischa :beam:
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/2021...c23/index.html
Some of us don't give a :daisy: whether they're equal or not, but only about how to best put an end to all this kind of thing. The thing about you and other moralists is that you're fixated on the idea of right and wrong, and how if the side of good yields even an inch to the side of evil, the forces of darkness will overwhelm us all. That's BS. In practice, selective giving and nudging here and there does more to stop violence now and in the future than any amount of outrage over how evil it is to inculcate children in violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
They are told to hate the jews from day one, there is no middle ground in that, and let's not pretend their religion isn't a factor. I think we can safely speak of right and wrong when kids are brainwashed in such a way.
And are we going to stop all this if we tell them this is wrong? To quote Eliza Doolittle, not bloody likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I am sure there must be ways to convince them it isn't in their best interest, still like your incredibly evil scheme getting the moderates afloat with a carrot or two. But when I look at clips like this, hopeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Give the mothers something to raise their children for, and they'll look after them well enough. Don't give others the opportunity to surrogate for them, or to supplant family relationships with ideological ones. Give the mothers a future for their kids, and the idiot preachers will soon be marginalised. In conservative society, women aren't supposed to act as individuals. But within the family context, mothers are incredibly powerful and influential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
From a westeners perspective that makes sense, but I am not going to dismiss the religious factor so easily. Hamas builds these schools, will they accept other schools with alternative learnings? It are the mothers that bring them to these schools, they know what is tought there, they are proud of their martyr son, maybe they are actually the problem? They do hate the jews, nothing is going to stop that.
The content will change once it becomes politically undesirable to continue teaching that message - that's the nice thing about dictatorial regimes. And the children, in the main, are taken to school to learn to read and write. If the mothers want them to learn to hate the Jews, they can do so with less travel by hanging out with the older kids in the neighbourhood. It's the same with all other institutions provided by ideologically-driven groups - they provide the basic secular care, then they add their ideological message to the proceedings. But without the first, people wouldn't bother to stay for the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
For an example of what Islam can be like if they can get over this voctim complex, have a look at this documentary. It's called "When the Moors ruled in Europe".
What it once was it isn't anymore, and I wonder if it ever really was just that in the first place. Despite vs because. As long as they don't rule that victim-complex will always be there, so convinced of them being right and so terribly schooled by a civilisation they(well some) see as inferiour and immoral in just about everything, human rigths, science, literature. Let's treat it for what it is, not what it was a few centuries ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
The mothers? So they even have a say in how their kids are educated if the fathers are already spoilt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
I think it was tribesman who posted a video about israeli kids throwing rocks at palestinian women and kids with soldiers being around who didn't do a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Now if that isn't hate, I don't know and it wasn't even a play. Maybe they don't use bombs strapped to them, but why should they if they can join a superior army?
And two wrongs just make two wrongs so we end up with noone being right(except for me of course :eyebrows: but I don't count here).
I remember Mrs. Murphey's kindergarten graduation celebration (1956): we had Kool-Aid drinks and chocolate-chip cookies, and we showed off our besty-best watercolor artwork, and how fast we could scramble under our desks when the air raid sirens sounded.
Heh. These kids get costumes, and toys, and music, and gymnastics. They must be rich.
Perhaps you don't see because you don't want to look:yes:Quote:
Hey Im not saying the Israelis are saints but again I dont see any where near the hatred there
BTW Your link to the American Isreali co-op is quite funny , did they really have to stretch things to make the article bigger ?
would you like it ripped apart ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: