Stigmata

Tell me about it.

It appears there exist people who simply somehow receive wounds on bodily locations similar to where Jesus himself would have had them while he supposedly suffered by crucifixion. For instance the hands which were violently penetrated. During the event the one who is vulnerable to this stigmatical phenomenon is usually in terrible pain whereafter it takes some time for the wound(s) to disappear leaving the flesh clean as if nothing had occurred.

Some of them are so much... in a certain status, they can see Jesus and communicate with him. They "feel" the pain, that he has undergone, by stigmata and they believe it all to be true.

But is it true? False? Possible, impossible?

It may very well be (some of) these people make false claims and actually sneakily invent these phenomena. If I am not mistaken, science has shown the possibility of artificially creating physical symptoms with the use of cheap tools. It merely requires a little concoction and one could have something which appears "stigmatic" in nature. This does not, however, mean (some of) those people actually perform it in such ways.

There is no proof, or is there?

Well, I'll stop now and let you go on about it.

Well, if it's true, then it's a very good reason NOT to be a christian, isn't it...?

I certainly won't follow a god who gives terrible pain to his most devoted followers... As a fun side-point, that's usually the mark of the evil gods in most fantasy universes...

Fake.

I have stigmata, in, my eyes!

for all those fans of "neurotically yours".

Great song!

Quote:

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Stronger than reason
Stronger than lies
The only truth I know
Is the look in your eyes

Just like a car crash
Just like a knife
My favourite weapon
Is the look in your eyes

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:thrasher:

Oh, sorry, you mean the imitation of Christ's wounds. Possibly psychosomatic, probably fake, doubtfully divinely inspired.

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

Fake.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well, if it's true, then it's a very good reason NOT to be a christian, isn't it...?

I certainly won't follow a god who gives terrible pain to his most devoted followers... As a fun side-point, that's usually the mark of the evil gods in most fantasy universes...

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Well... God works in mysterious ways...

I hoped it was about me
Stig, mate

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Originally Posted by atheotes

Well... God works in mysterious ways...

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Well, he should wise up then. I wont follow a god doing evil things... He seems to be needing a PR-consultant.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well, he should wise up then. I wont follow a god doing evil things... He seems to be needing a PR-consultant.

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He has actually improved a bit, from what I've gathered from the OT, he was pretty much "worship me, or else!" and then even if you worshiped him, he would still do that "else" quite often.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

He has actually improved a bit, from what I've gathered from the OT, he was pretty much "worship me, or else!" and then even if you worshiped him, he would still do that "else" quite often.

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So....He is now "worship me, and then else"...?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So....He is now "worship me, and then else"...?

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lol :laugh4:

Often people see and feel what they want to see and feel, not what is actually happening. Their mind is probably playing tricks on them.

It's so fake.

This, I believe is a herald to start worshiping the old gods. I mean what kind of god doesn't allow unceasing combat filled with a night of raunchy group sex with young nubile shield maidens?

Hehehe at school we used to celebrate Sinterklaas, you have to give a classmate a present , and my mentor was the religion teacher and I had to buy him something. Gave him a hammer and a few nails and explained it was do-it-youselve stigmata kit. He wasn't pleased.

I say it's fake yes.

As for being possible: it would be possible via demon possession, but otherwise, no.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

I say it's fake yes.

As for being possible: it would be possible via demon possession, but otherwise, no.

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Oh come on, God could do it if He wants to, if a demon can than why can't God ?

It's the medieval mindset, everything 'strange' has to be the work of some demon or the devil, even if it helps people.

Not that stigmatas help people and not that i believe they are caused by supernatural phenemena...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Hehehe at school we used to celebrate Sinterklaas, you have to give a classmate a present , and my mentor was the religion teacher and I had to buy him something. Gave him a hammer and a few nails and explained it was do-it-youselve stigmata kit. He wasn't pleased.

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

Great idea... :smash:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Hehehe at school we used to celebrate Sinterklaas, you have to give a classmate a present , and my mentor was the religion teacher and I had to buy him something. Gave him a hammer and a few nails and explained it was do-it-youselve stigmata kit. He wasn't pleased.

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I bet he didn't ask you to put him up for the night! :laugh4:

HA!

On Topic: The mind can do some VERY strange things, I would not discount the possibility of some spontanious stigmtal wound but in general I would say it's fake.

So from what I read (hopefully not having missed any other) it could be

* psychosomatic:

-- as in the mind strangely influences the physique

* physically concocted:

-- as in they utilize tools such as chemicals to create symptoms

-- as in they use primitive tools such as knives or whatever ably penetrating/damaging object onto the skin

I know there is proof for the second one (star). Is there proof for the first one? What other possibilities are there?

Has there ever been an accurate (objective) observation of someone suffering reception of stigmata and has the event been properly investigated?

I believe it.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

I believe it.

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And therein lies the rub.

The most famous recent stigmatic was Padre Pio. Those interested may research his case, which was investigated by many modern (early twentieth century) medical professionals. For much of his early life, he was also branded a fraud and a liar by the Catholic hierarchy, so there was no evident conspiracy.

In the end however, no matter the evidence of witnesses, it comes down to belief. Maybe he was a neurotic whose symptoms displayed as stigmata for fifty years but with no current medical explanation, or he was a saintly man blessed by God.

One's own mind-set will decide the answer, not the "evidence".

Or, maybe he was possessed by a demon.

Satan makes a habit of imitating God and Jesus.

God would not give stigmata to someone as a "blessing". That makes no sense.

If there was ever a legitimate case of stigmata it would be as a result of Satan, not God.

It's always fake.

I'm glad I don't live in a religious society. Someone could rob a bank, commit a triple homicide, and the claim the the devil made them do it.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Or, maybe he was possessed by a demon.

Satan makes a habit of imitating God and Jesus.

God would not give stigmata to someone as a "blessing". That makes no sense.

If there was ever a legitimate case of stigmata it would be as a result of Satan, not God.

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That's a very authorative statement to make, and it could be said that such statements are themselves the work of the Devil. The author of The Cloud of Unknowing devoted several chapters to ways he believed that workers of the Devil could be identified. Claiming to know the will of God and chastising others was right at the top of the list.

Don't get me wrong, whatever else I may think of you Nav I don't think you're posssessed but I also don't think anyone should make authorative blanket statements about this regarding God's will.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Or, maybe he was possessed by a demon.

Satan makes a habit of imitating God and Jesus.

God would not give stigmata to someone as a "blessing". That makes no sense.

If there was ever a legitimate case of stigmata it would be as a result of Satan, not God.

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Have you ever heard of Job ?

God, not exactly the nicest guy around....

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

Have you ever heard of Job ?

God, not exactly the nicest guy around....

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IIRC it wasn't God who did all the bad things to him, it was the devil, God just kinda removed his protection and let the devil do. Oh and in the end he gave Job more than what he had before, as a capitalist you should appreciate that. ~;)

If he lets his own son get nailed to the cross why no other son of god huh? ~;)