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Im still scared of building the inn line of buildings because of my govenors all turning into corrupt alcoholics :furious3: has this toned down with 1.2, just wondering how everyone else manages this problem. Does public order become a problem for you ?
I don't use assasins because i want chivalry not dread and i only use a few spys to guard borders so i generally only have one city with these buildings.
Most of the time I don't keep a governor in my interior cities. Once a city is no longer on the "Front line", I generally start putting in the inn series to keep up happiness.
Usually all my general are at the front lines. even the 0 command star generals, they act as super ponies.
I will only put a general in town when i wan him to retire early and allow a younger general to build up his stats.
e.g. i got a 10star 45yr old general and a 4 star 16yr old old rookie. I will retire the old guy and have the young punk to replace him.
Some times the old guys are so good that he will get acoholic trait and etc. -4 command star, but they will still have 8-10 command star in the end.
Most of the time, all my 10 star generals have the traits like, born conquerer and below, etc. They can certainly can get 10 star at the end of their career.
Those without, 0 star at the age of 16, at most will get till 6-7 stars. Unless he went crusading. But i dun join crusades.
I think Pleasure Palaces and etc adds population growth too as they are entertainment places. check your city scroll.
I will generally specialize one city to be my spy and assassin maker. As I spread out , I will keep a couple that way and feed spies into other cities. I try to put an assassin in every general's stack to keep him from getting assassinated. The AI has better luck with that than I ever did.:furious3:
romanwarmachine,
There are two main triggers associated with negative traits in settlements that really tick me off, the one percent chance for girls, drink, arse and gambling at the end of every turn, and the slightly higher chances for girls, drink and gambling associated with the lower brothel line. I always comment both of these out, as they just end up aggrevating and ruining games for me.
I leave in the pleasure_palace negative trait chances though... if you really need the happiness bonus that bad, your governor's probably the kind of guy who would hang out in the VIP room of a palace devoted to pleasure.
I don't believe 1.2 made any changes, though I haven't looked at the readme in a while. I think theres a one percent chance for each of the four vices in any settlement, and a five percent chance for drink and three percent chance for gambling and girls in a city with a low level brothel-type building. The traits are really easy to edit though.
-HomelessDepot
I used to have exactly the same attitude to brothels and alcoholism, etc. to the point where I'd stopped building them for fear of corrupting my faction members. Trouble is:Quote:
Originally Posted by romanwarmachine
If you look at the bad traits and corruption you get from building the boozer line of buldings, most of it isn't that bad or can be avoided. If you look at the triggers for drink, girls, extravagance, etc. most of them happen to a governor who is staying still in his town from turn to turn (ie. still has 100% of his movement points left when you click the end turn button).
- I love spies. Assassins I can live without, but, just for counter-espionage alone, a good spy is worth his salt.
- A brothel, a building that gives 5% happiness and a 0.5% increase in growth for just 800 quid and 2 turns is hard to ignore early in a settlement's life.
From looking at guides on this forum (I'd recommend reading Koal2fr's stuff), I worked out that moving governors even just in and out of the same settlement in the same turn is enough to give him immunity from the vast majority of bad traits (in fact moving a guy from town to town to complete a good variety of buildings is the best way to train him up for chivalrous governorship).
So now I build the pubs and don't worry. Just make sure your prized governors take a little stroll each turn before they end in the settlement to govern.
As for using spies, I train them in an ungoverned settlement to avoid corrupting a faction member. After a few successful missions your faction leader will earn the Master of Espionage trait, which won't affect his chivalry so it's not too bad. Just remember that your faction's reputation takes a hit when your spies are caught red-handed though.
Actually it does give you +1 Dread (and +2 Security and 30% Agent recruitment discount), but my faction leaders tend to have 12+ Chivalry anyway, so it doesn't matter.Quote:
...your faction leader will earn the Master of Espionage trait, which won't affect his chivalry so it's not too bad.
I have a couple of governers I trained up as per Kobal2fr's guide to be super-traders, miners and farmers
they are in the cities which are my best contributers to trade, boosting my income
other than that I don't use governers so I don't have an aversion to building the "pleasure" line of buildings
having said that I find (except in a settlement or two I need to produce spies and assassins) I only start building them later when I run out of PO boosts from other building lines, and I want to edge my cities up to VH taxes
Actually, rwm, I haven't noticed the negative effects that you describe. I'm not sure that the brothel/inn/etc series of buildings works to the same effect that Bacchus/Dionysus temples worked in RTW. I can't vouch for that for sure as I don't know the program code and I haven't run across a comprehensive buildings guide in this forum yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by romanwarmachine
The downside to NOT building any of the brothel/inn line of buildings is you can't recruit assassins otherwise. Since you don't care to pursue assassin recruiting, it's all the same to you whether you build the inn line buildings in great numbers. I do like the convenience of being able to recruit a spy wherever I need him, without having to send him trekking to distant cities because of the lack of a brothel.
I do tend to station governors in my larger cash producing cities. Not all of my generals are frontline stuff, and some cities appreciate the stabilizing influence of a general with administrative talents. It's a waste to use them otherwise.
I will admit one of my fears is moving stacks of troops about on the board without a general. I've had incidents where I just received some 'prize' reinforcements for accomplishing a guild mission and moved them out of their city to send them to an army that needed reinforcements, only to have the entire stack of reinforcements go 'rebel.' THEN, I had to send an army to kill my newly rebellious reinforcements. Very annoying. :thumbsdown:
The public order benefit, being only a 5% increase per upgrade, isn't so great that you couldn't forego building these buildings in every city.
When I first started playing M2TW I thought the inn/brothel buildings would have a negative affect on the piety of the faction member. But apparently they don't. And, as I said, I just haven't seen the correlation between brothels to alcoholism and arse, etc.
One negative trait incident that I HAVE seen that I find annoying is in relation to princesses -- the 'secret lover.' You have passed up a couple 40-50 year old suitors hoping a young fella shows up in the next turn or so. Your princess is gaining charm negotiating up a storm in the meantime, and then, all of a sudden, she acquires a secret lover and drops a notch on the charm scale. Moral of story? I guess you can't keep princesses single too long, or they get horny. :beam:
I just don't build them. I try to run a clean, chivalrous empire the best I can. That means I always build churches fast, build lots of priests, don't build the brothel line buildings, only occupy cities, and hardly ever slaughter enemy armies (I usually release them unless they have done something despicable that warrants execution).
I felt like this before i started to play Hungary.
So, you need Tavern to train Transylvanian peasants AND, since Hungary cannot build Theatre or Art Studio, only Tavern ++ can give Bard retinue to governer. So, i advice to build it with factions which dont get artistic buildings line. Bard is good for morale and popularity. And i get this much more usual than Adultress retinue.
I try not to build too many brothels, but if my generals get bad traits, i say, 'Hey, they are human', leaders and generals in the real world were/are far less than models of chivalry and morality, no reason to expect your leaders to be otherwise. Do you really NEED 8 star generals anyway? Stars are much less important than they were in MTW and RTW.
Seems like there are few people out there like me, i do like to have govenors in my internal larger cities. I quite enjoy seeing my family members become a good govenor so i really don't used anything other than 2-3 family members as generals across my whole empire and then retire them with high peity and chiv (and command stars) to a city.
Another one that annoys me is the pagan magician, pretty hard to miss at the start of the game and if you battle your way east