Live Update of Thread When Posting (and general modernization)

It is a suggestion that suddenly came up. I find the Org good as it is, but I think it can be better, as anything in the world can be better.

Some way to update the thread live which you can see as you post (as you write a message). Let us say that it can lead to... certain situations if this feature, in whatever way it is to be, is not installed.

Furthermore, I was personally cogitating a modernization of the forum (which included the Live Thread Update). For instance, more Flash, Shockwave, etcetera, elements. A more graphical and modern interactive approach.

For instance, as you type, perhaps there is a graphical representation that scrolls a window in which the relevant thread (to which one posts) is. Perhaps a sound is made that emphasizes the fact that a new message has been posted in this thread and it is shown.

More interactive, graphical and modern would also mean that for instance if one would be on the main overall view of the forum the threads and subforums in which changes are made are graphically emphasized (what is currently in view). Perhaps that which is out of view could be notified as well by an up/down arrow (for example).

Extra messages would be displayed on the bottom side of the screen that shows someone has posted a message in a certain thread and subforum.

Etcetera, etcetera.

A double post for I cannot edit at the moment.


To exemplify more, regard instant message software. For instance when one's online AOL Instant Messenger provides one with a notification when e-mail is received, or when someone on your friends list arrives.

In the case of Hotmail instant messaging one can see notifications of all kind as well such as a piece of the message you are receiving at the moment and from whom it originates.

Or regard Gmail: it also has some of these features. The point I attempt to make is that more interactivity, "liveness", graphical (and perhaps sound) notifications, and overall modernization would not only be better-looking but also more efficient in one's online activity.

It would for instance have prevented me from posting a certain message whereafter I have lost my Edit button without even being aware of what had been posted before me.

My reasons are sufficiently in order and logical. What say you?

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Originally Posted by Bijo

It would for instance have prevented me from posting a certain message whereafter I have lost my Edit button without even being aware of what had been posted before me.

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If you lost your edit button, I take it you got a warning.

Warnings are issued for the violation of forum rules. The forum rules can be found in the Entrance Hall, in the Guild FAQ (it's stickied). Some subfora have extra, most of the time more stringent, rules e.g. the rules concerning language in the guides sections. They are stickied as well. In other words: you cannot miss the rules. Besides, by signing up, you agreed to them.

Every time you post at the Org, you are supposed to have read all these rules and to obey them. What gets posted by a moderator while you are writing your post is in fact irrelevant concerning the received warning, since you are already supposed to follow the Org's rules when posting.

Just my :2cents:

When using the post editor, the posts in the thread are shown below (at least, they are in the RTW skin). If you write up a post, and then use the "Preview Post" button, you will not only see your post in all it's tagged glory, but the thread's posts will update accordingly below the editor. I usually preview before submitting, to proof-read my post as well as check for new submissions.

I wouldn't mind some form of RSS feed mechanism, but I don't know how much effort or bandwidth that would take.

Oh, dear God no flash please. And no sound. If you're too lazy to check a forum for new messages, it is really not the forum skins you should be considering changing.

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Originally Posted by drone

When using the post editor, the posts in the thread are shown below (at least, they are in the RTW skin). If you write up a post, and then use the "Preview Post" button, you will not only see your post in all it's tagged glory, but the thread's posts will update accordingly below the editor. I usually preview before submitting, to proof-read my post as well as check for new submissions.

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If that is true, that is at least... workable. But it would be tedious to press the button to preview, especially if one writes a long post (-- as I type now it would simply be tedious or bothersome to hit 'preview post' and I do not perform this action even if I know it is possible someone else has now already posted before this current is submitted). This limited option is not more efficient and useful than the suggestion of some sort of "live forum" -- a forum that is "alive", breathing, interactive, more graphical, etcetera.

(The purpose of 'preview' is to preview your post (and it actually does not at all clearly resembles your finalized post when submission is performed).)

A version of the forum in which the "live interactivity mode" is actived would be splendid, and a version that is as it is now. The option could reside in the User CP where options are controlled.

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I wouldn't mind some form of RSS feed mechanism, but I don't know how much effort or bandwidth that would take.

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RSS?

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Originally Posted by Bijo

RSS?

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Really Simple Syndication

For me, really long posts are exactly what the Preview Post button is for. I usually make more grammar, syntax or spelling errors in long posts, the preview lets me read it all in post format to see how it comes across. It also gives me a second chance to rethink the post altogether (is it necessary, is it spam, is it pushing the boundaries of the forum rules, etc.). Also, since writing long posts takes longer, the preview allows you to see posts that come in while the "novel" was being written.

Having a live forum mode would require a shift from browser-side "requested data" to server-side "pushed data". I'm pretty sure this is not a trivial task, from either a programming or bandwidth standpoint.

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing things go completely web2.0 with AJAX; but that's something that has to be built into the vB core, and isn't really something that can be edited at will by the admins here.

A huge :no: to flash and sound by me, too ~:)

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Originally Posted by sapi

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing things go completely web2.0 with AJAX; but that's something that has to be built into the vB core, and isn't really something that can be edited at will by the admins here.

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Ah! Web 2.0 and Ajax: I am hardly familiar with them but I generally see they more or less resemble what I meant by my idea :thumbsup: (if I have read and understood the information on it correctly)

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A huge :no: to flash and sound by me, too ~:)

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What if there would be an option to activate/deactivate sound notifications and Flash? Such options would serve both sides who like/dislike them.

I vote no Flash, no sound. Cost-Benefit must be considered in evolving software--increased functionality and end-user benefit versus cost in time to develop (to my knowledge, no one's getting paid to develop this forum ...) and degree of difficulty. Risk must also be considered--and Flash is a security risk. Sound is invasive, and if it's ever added as a feature, it should be completely optional and not the default.

This forum works very nicely in my opinion. Bells and whistles as described--represented as "modernization"--remind me of trends in today's popular games and movies--much superficial glitz, no significant value added--some even subtracted from my point of view. My so-called "bell curve phenomenon" is poignantly demonstrated, as the general population sadly seems to prefer such things.

For the sake of clarity to me and others who know little of it here is what Ajax is. Fascinating.

And here is Web 2.0. Fascinating.


[QUOTE=Masamune]
[...]Bells and whistles as described--represented as "modernization"--remind me of trends in today's popular games and movies--much superficial glitz, no significant value added--[...]
You would find that my reasoning in the opening posts and the information recently provided in this post would contradict this statement ;)

Yes, we definitely need more social networking and other Web 2.0 features here. If I look at a user's profile I want to see the cheapest flights to his/her town or the shortest way by car or anything. Then people will also be more polite in the Backroom.

Also we need some place where ogahs can find a partner for their life, the .org geek marriage center or something, I certainly wouldn't use it, but it's modern.
And maybe a marketplace where we can sell old computer parts to the highest bidder, or maybe CD keys. And i want to see the weather forecast on every page of the forum, including a newsreader voice that will read my RSS feeds to me(good thing I don't have any), alternatively the voice could just read the folder structure of the primary partition or something.

Ok, that's all I can think of now, tomorrow, when Tosa has finished these, I can add more.

My browser automatically refreshes when something is posted, wish I could shut it off it's annoying and it slows down my internet to a crawl. I can use two windows at most or I run out of memory :shame:

[QUOTE=Bijo]For the sake of clarity to me and others who know little of it here is what Ajax is. Fascinating.

And here is Web 2.0. Fascinating.

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Originally Posted by Masamune

[...]Bells and whistles as described--represented as "modernization"--remind me of trends in today's popular games and movies--much superficial glitz, no significant value added--[...]
You would find that my reasoning in the opening posts and the information recently provided in this post would contradict this statement ;)

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I did read your post, understood what you were driving at despite the difficulty I have translating your choice and arrangement of words, and my opinion is indeed contrary to yours. There is no "contradiction" in my statement as I see it. From my point of view, your choice of diction demonstrates the very tendency towards pomp and attempted flashiness that your suggestions for the forums advocate. ;) Then again, perhaps it is simply because you do not live in a region where proper English is actually spoken regularly, and have been "over-schooled" in written English and vocabulary. This is not meant to be an insult, merely an observation/feedback--from someone who takes his English and written communication fairly seriously.

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Originally Posted by Bijo

What the-- :inquisitive:

Do you happen to have anything useful to add without sarcasm?

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Maybe.
Sorry for so much sarcasm, sometimes it's hard to stop. ~;)

First off, someone has to program all this and second, I wonder why we need all that stuff? IMO the Org looks good enough, what makes this forum great are not it's looks, it's the people. And a lot of flash etc will just cause more problems with browsers, slow computers and especially slow internet connections. Why fix something that ain't broken?

Tosa already adds some nice things from time to time and he seems to do a good job with that, for me that is sufficient.

Ya know, I was searching for my fly swatter. You probably know those ones with the electricity. I could not find it: regrettable, truly regrettable. I will simply have to use the old-fashioned one then. The electrical ones make taking out more flies simultaneously or fast after each other somewhat easier, though I guess the old ones are useful as well. It just takes more skill, but it's possible.

Oh, sorry. It seems I went offtopic.
[/offtopic]


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Originally Posted by Husar

Maybe.
I wonder why we need all that stuff? IMO the Org looks good enough,

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To make it more efficient for users. If there was the option that one could choose to keep the standard as it is now I would hardly see a problem. You could keep browsing the Org as it is at present.

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what makes this forum great [...] it's the people.

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There have been cases where I would beg to differ :yes: but indeed it is the people. But this however regards the community, not the technical side of the forum, and it is the technical side that is the question here.

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And a lot of flash etc will just cause more problems with browsers, slow computers and especially slow internet connections. Why fix something that ain't broken?

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If the option to keep the old/standard Org view is there I again see no problem.

And can you specify what kinds of problems regarding 'problems with browsers' ?

And what about 'slow internet connections'? I'm not getting it, but from what I understand it would actually be more efficient not having to reload web pages all the time. Is this incorrect?

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Tosa already adds some nice things from time to time and he seems to do a good job with that, for me that is sufficient.

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Indeed: it is good work and he is to be praised for it. It is also, indeed, sufficient (whether to you or generally).

But can you not see it? If the Org community seems splendid and the board is -- by your words -- sufficient (or let us say good or splendid in general), then what if the board is "modernized" as in dynamic, interactive, more intuitive, etc., etc.?

The following dramatization explains it:
Best Online Community + "Modernized" Forum ---> EVEN GREATER ONLINE COMMUNITY/FORUM!!!!!!11one!

I dont think this is a good idea. If the whole site works in Java, dont expect to see me again.

That can happen to a lot of users.

A big "No" from me. If you want to talk with other Orgahs etc, use the Chatroom.

I'd say no.

More "modernisation" makes things more complicated imo. More complicated = more risk that something goes wrong.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I prefer it like it is now, with Tosa adding something new every now and then.

And please, oh please, I beg thee: no flash and no sound.

Like others said, it's the members and the posts which make me come back to this site almost everyday. All this technical extra mambo-jambo wouldn't add value in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bijo

And can you specify what kinds of problems regarding 'problems with browsers' ?

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I know webpages that work with Java or Flash and I can click anything and nothing happens, sometimes they just don't work in Opera and I have to load them in IE to see their contents. It's probably bad programming on the side of the guy who made the webpage since other pages work just fine, but then you cannot expect everybody to be an expert, can you? The last time some people wanted a shinier frontpage not much happened so my guess is we don't have experts for shiny webpages here or they don't have the time/interest to do it. Which would leave us with amateurs trying to make it work and that could cause problems.

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Originally Posted by Bijo

And what about 'slow internet connections'? I'm not getting it, but from what I understand it would actually be more efficient not having to reload web pages all the time. Is this incorrect?

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Yes, but before you can reload anything, you have to load all the fancy stuff once, and that takes time, if you add to that that the .org server already seems a bit slow sometimes, with more fancy stuff, it would become even slower because every user would have to get even more data, that would slow down broadband users as well. Of course it seems like you could reduce the reloading of things once you're in the forum by using AJAX, but if you increase everything in size, you might end up loading the same amount of data anyway.

As I've already said, any major changes (flash, java, ajax) will have to be done by the vB developers, not the Org admins.

There are developers supporting this board? Volunteers, or paid staff?

Hi Masamune,

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Originally Posted by Masamune

There are developers supporting this board? Volunteers, or paid staff?

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Yep, staff are paid to create the board. You can find more information here.

Hello,

Technically, the forum is hardly more than a database, and anyone is free to use that how he/she likes.

It's not always easy to pull it off, sometimes it is but it bites with other interests.