Warsaw Battle 1920

87 years ago took place 18th battle in the world history. At the foregrounds of Warsaw polish army crushed 3 times bigger Soviet horde and saved Europe from communism.

Freedom faced tyrany, western civilisation faced barbarian horde, honor faced cowardice. And despite being outnumbered, despite support give to Soviets by commies into Western Europe and despite Czechoslovakian cowards Poles won.

Without that battle whole Europe now would be like North Korea.
So pay tribute to brave men without whom you would be slaves.

Long live Poland. Long live Pilsudski!!!!

Wow.

I don't think the Soviet Union had the resources to actually conquer anyone in 1920, seeing as how they were beaten by a Polish army only a third it's own size.

I see most of your post actually as only insane Polish Nationalism and Russophobia and "Commiephobia"(?).

I don't doubt that it would be pretty bad to live under the Soviet Union, compared to how people live in Western Europe, but I doubt that Poland was "the world's only remaining barrier against communism". As I said, this battle only proves that the Soviet Union was in a mess and not in a fit shape to conquer anyone or do anything of importance abroad. It was basically still in a civil war.

Spare us your nationalism Krook, go with it somewhere else.

Sides the Russian army wasn't 3 times bigger, the forces were evenly matched.
And believe me, Europe wouldn't be Communistic if it weren't for you Poles, even the Dutch would have caused the Soviets a bigger defeat.

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Originally Posted by KrooK

Freedom faced tyrany, western civilisation faced barbarian horde, honor faced cowardice. And despite being outnumbered, despite support give to Soviets by commies into Western Europe and despite Czechoslovakian cowards Poles won.

Without that battle whole Europe now would be like North Korea.
So pay tribute to brave men without whom you would be slaves.

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Please. Stop. Shut. UP. Now. That is biased propoganda and nothing more, so please, just shut up. Say what you want about the Soviets, but to refer to them as a 'cowardly barbarian horde' makes me just want to shoot you now.

Sheesh, this post just scares me. What the heck is up with the Soviet bashing?

"Freedom faced tyrany, western civilisation faced barbarian horde, honor faced cowardice. "...?

Perhaps you need to learn not to look at history through such black and white terms, eh? There's no doubt that there was evil in the world, but to say it was exclusively on one side is just horribly incorrect, and dare I say just plain dumb.

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Originally Posted by Stig

Spare us your nationalism Krook, go with it somewhere else.

Sides the Russian army wasn't 3 times bigger, the forces were evenly matched.
And believe me, Europe wouldn't be Communistic if it weren't for you Poles, even the Dutch would have caused the Soviets a bigger defeat.

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You cannot deny the tactical and strategical brilliance that allowed for the Miracle on the Vistula. Stop believing in the myth of it being an idea of De Gaulle's or another Westerner, 'cause it wasn't.

And he has a point, though he surrounds it with rabid nationalism and fear-mongering. Had Poland been overrun, the Red Army could've steamed right on to Germany and installed Rosa Luxemburg and her cronies on the throne of another red juggernaut.

European history would've been a very different thing indeed if Poland had lost the Polish-Soviet War, with a multi-million murderer like Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky lord and master over an area as or even more significant than what it came into possession of following 1945 -- and this would've been 1921.

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Stop believing in the myth of it being an idea of De Gaulle's or another Westerner

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Am I doing that?


This thread is pure nationalistic and wrong

Indeed, you have the ultranationalism of a Pole on one side (the pride of whom is warranted, to a point), and the chauvinism and disbelief of others on the other. You see, Holland would not have "caused a bigger defeat" than the Poles did, because Holland was a piss-poor backwater as far as military is concerned at this time. So stop denigrating Poland.

The rest of Europe was in real danger of being overrun by the seemingly unstoppable Red Army. With war weariness at its highest right after the Great War, Poland was on its own. That it managed to defeat the unchained army of its mortal enemy -- Russia -- is a feat on its own, and that that defeat meant that Germany -- and who knows how much more of Europe -- was kept from going red as well makes the Miracle on the Vistula even more impressive.

Easy, guys. If you can't follow Baba Ga'on's example and discuss this calmly and civilly, then you should probably refrain from posting in this thread.

Myself, I can't see how the Red Army could possibly have been viewed as an unstoppable war-machine. Take Russia, much of the Western parts had been badly hit in the war, and were even more ravaged during the revolution, and the following civil, not to mention how Lenin's war communism further ravaged the country and it's economy. The Red Army at the time was more like a very large militia.

Though, I will have to give it to them, if the Poles had not been next door with a sizeable and adequate army. Then that "very large" militia might have overrun them, just like it had won the civil war, and Germany would not have been in a position to stop them, much of the country may just have embraced them.

That's more sensible stuff coming out of someone's mouth I think. I think, if we do a chain of events, then this would possibly end up with a bigger Soviet Union at the time it became relatively more stabilized. And probably a war fought against them, if the Allies had been able to stomach the thought.
This whole scenario reminds me a little of the game "Freedom Fighters" - a great game actually.

I dont know where to begin really... That much nationalism and hate doesnt have a place here.

Closed for now.



CBR