Best Level

I was hastily cogitating which game has good level design and which level had great design (objectively and subjectively). It includes originality, level's gameplay, and so forth. Think, think, think, BOOM: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time -- The Water Temple.

Three elevations of water that can be switched, the use of heavy boots to reach underwater locations, the use of normal boots to relieve said weight, good atmosphere, good sound, a good mini boss, a good big boss, etcetera.

What is the best level design in a game according to you?

Operation Flashpoint.:laugh4:

Q3DM17, AKA The Longest Yard. :yes:

Refresher vid

Welps... If I had to pick for a console, the most recent thing that comes to mind is the overall architecture in Metroid Prime, the first one. That game was just so well done and put together.

For most hated level, I'd have to say the Super Mario World (SNES) star map 2? I think it was... The one where you have to keep eating the balloons to float through the entire level. HATE. Pure, raw, unabating, hatred.

Pretty much all the levels on Thief: The Dark Project.
Return to the Cathedral and Down in the Bonehorde are most memorable.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Pretty much all the levels on Thief: The Dark Project.
Return to the Cathedral and Down in the Bonehorde are most memorable.

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TRUTH

My favorite is assasins though, I like the missions where you have to travel to your destination, really missed that in part deux. Only life at the party lives up to the first.

The Haunted mansion from Vampire: Bloodlines. Most of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (the library especially stands out).

Some of the most frustrating design was imo found in God of War, tedious 'platforming' sections don't belong in an action game. Most of the game is okay though.

The memorable ones for me are often those that are 'artistically' great and which really make me feel at home in the game, rather than any particular layout or difficulty. Here are a few off the top of my head:

Unreal - The first level (exiting the ship). That moment when you finally get outdoors, see the massive and beautiful (at the time) environment, and the music swells.

Half-Life - When you are crawling through a tube which empties out in the middle of a verticle cliff face with nowhere to hide and helicopters buzzing around you.

Starcraft - The first time you play the zergling rush level early on in the Terran campaign. No one ever really prepared well enough for the size of the rush the first time they played the game.

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - D-day landing map. These things have become clichéd with the flood of WW2 FPS games, but this was one of the first to do it really, really well.

Doom 3 - Escaping from the underground tunnels area right after everything goes to hell (literally). You've only got a pistol, minimal ammo, and everything that can go wrong, does.

TIE Fighter - The mission when you are betrayed, forcing you to destroy a minefield with an unshielded TIE Interceptor. Ridiculously hard and it makes you feel like you actually WERE meant to die. The relief at finally surviving is immense.

X-Wing Alliance - The Battle of Endor - All of the missions in the Millenium Falcon. They capture the thrill of the battle in the movie so well. Next time you're looking for a challenge, play the final mission where you fly through the Deathstar, but do it like the movie: dump all power to your engines and fly like your pants are on fire. Incredibly hard and exciting at the same time.

Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal - Sendai's Lair. You slaughter massive hordes of enemies while being treated the cutscenes of Sendai totally flipping out. This area really made you feel like you actually were becoming a god.

American McGee's Alice - The 'garden' level where you shrink to the size of a bug.

It's too difficult to make a true list of all great objective based mp maps or singleplayer maps, so I'll just answer an easier question: favorite deathmatch mp maps:

UT: Morpheus (low gravity, redeemer, sniper rifle, rockets - what's not to like?) and Morbias (a simple cylinder shaped level with an upper circular balcony which you can reach through a few lifts, and nothing but rocket launchers!) in the original UT
UT2004: Morpheus3, the UT Morbias clone (forgot its name), Serpentine (once you gain the high ground the enemy is screwed for several minutes if you're clever :evil: )
Q3: The longest yard (nowhere to run, nowhere to hide... :evil: )

Knights and Merchants, levels 4, 8 (or 9, I think I forgot ... for those of you who had this fun game, it's the one where you start with a magazine and 2 groups of Barbarians and a group of Crossbowmen), 15 and 16

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

UT: Morpheus (low gravity, redeemer, sniper rifle, rockets - what's not to like?) and Morbias (a simple cylinder shaped level with an upper circular balcony which you can reach through a few lifts, and nothing but rocket launchers!) in the original UT

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Meh, give me a good CTF on Lava Giant or Facing Worlds, and I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Stig

Knights and Merchants, levels 4, 8 (or 9, I think I forgot ... for those of you who had this fun game, it's the one where you start with a magazine and 2 groups of Barbarians and a group of Crossbowmen), 15 and 16

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That was a fun game, level 7 IIRC was really hard, you had to fight some barbarians rather early and had only a few men. Very tactical game, a bit like Total war actually, concerning the battles and their calculations. Just a pity that the stand-alone expansion is very buggy and keeps crashing. Though I don't remember it having some exceptionally great levels.

I might add mafia, for the same reason that I added OFP, big level, lots of freedom.:2thumbsup:

ummm operation overdog or something from ace combat 4

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Originally Posted by Bijo

I was hastily cogitating which game has good level design and which level had great design (objectively and subjectively). It includes originality, level's gameplay, and so forth. Think, think, think, BOOM: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time -- The Water Temple.

Three elevations of water that can be switched, the use of heavy boots to reach underwater locations, the use of normal boots to relieve said weight, good atmosphere, good sound, a good mini boss, a good big boss, etcetera.

What is the best level design in a game according to you?

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I feel like busting out the 64(wiping the dust off) and playing the game now.

I'd say that whole game was very well made and each level added extra challenges and made you use all that you learned previously to get by it, and not to mention the great story line. And I'd agree with you that that was heckuva level to play and one great feeling of satisfaction to beat it. I can't tell ya how many hours me, my bro, and our friend played that level trying to beat it. And not to mention all those wasted hours fishing lol.

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Just a pity that the stand-alone expansion is very buggy and keeps crashing. Though I don't remember it having some exceptionally great levels.

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I agree, but luckely a unofficial patch fixes that (it also turns the names back ... they were changed in the Dutch version), as well as the font type.
But yeah, that campaign sucked compared to the original one.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Meh, give me a good CTF on Lava Giant or Facing Worlds, and I'm happy.

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Yes, UT Facing worlds (and Q3 space ctf) are probably my favorite CTF levels :2thumbsup: However the bots in the original UT were too bad snipers, so in singleplayer I prefer the UT2004 Facing worlds!

The final level of Mysteries of the Sith, the expansion pack for Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II. Both JK and MotS were packed full of outstanding level design of a calibre rare both then and now. This level was the pinnacle.

The level was an ancient Sith temple on Dantooine. It was massive, simply massive, dark and eerie, stuffed full of tricky puzzles and places to explore as you worked your way through to the core and onto the central lift platform. Once there you lowered into the dark until you could see nothing but the tiny stone circle you stood on, your force powers draining away as a fallen Jedi you knew only too well taunted you. Then flash! The lift docked, the light returned and your former mentor was there, slicing you to bits. Any weapon but your lightsabre he ripped from your hand; this was a Jedi to Jedi battle and would be fought with a Jedi’s unique tools. It was the best boss battle I've encountered, and had the most unique victory condition.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You had to sheathe your lightsabre and wait for him to come to kill you. At which point a cutscene kicked in and he couldn't go through with it. He was completely invulnerable, and dying in combat did not count as success on your part. Realising how to win that battle gave me such a sense of revelation I was so stunned I couldn't move. It took me quite a few goes before it clicked; then and now it's rare for a Star Wars game to require you to act like a true Jedi.

The prior level was damned good too. Making your way through a hostile swamp in the midst of a thunder storm towards the hulking great temple where your mentor had mysteriously vanished …

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Originally Posted by TinCow

TIE Fighter - The mission when you are betrayed, forcing you to destroy a minefield with an unshielded TIE Interceptor. Ridiculously hard and it makes you feel like you actually WERE meant to die. The relief at finally surviving is immense.

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That one's great. Harkov I think it was. Really well done, and the buildup in earlier parts through cutscenes and the secret missions was perfect.

A favourite bit is in Timesplitters: Future Perfect, where you keep entering a time portal in the same room and end up with four of 'you', and each time you step through you have to perform a different task while the other you's do what you did earlier. Awesome.

All-time favourite? Facility, in Goldeneye 64. That was FPS perfection.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

All-time favourite? Facility, in Goldeneye 64. That was FPS perfection.

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That was one brilliant level to play. I especially love the opening "first shot."
I also like the one where you fight your way through the cemetery only to get shot by Alec. That was one of my favs to play.

Any level from Thief Gold, my favorite being Song of the caverns because of of the guy at the end of the cave that sings "Go go go, up, up the rope you go, while you creep so sloooooowww".
But I hate the Maw of Chaos, How the hell do you beat the Trickster? I don't get anywhere near the eye to replace it.
I also hate the third level, where you have to find the horn of Quintus, and I also hate the level where you have to go though the abandoned part of the city to the Hammer Church, and I also hate the Hammer Cathedral, man, those Undead Hammers are way to powerful.

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

But I hate the Maw of Chaos, How the hell do you beat the Trickster? I don't get anywhere near the eye to replace it.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Moss Arrows. Fire one near you, and another close to the trickster. Sneak up behind him, and replace the eye.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Moss Arrows. Fire one near you, and another close to the trickster. Sneak up behind him, and replace the eye.

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Hmm. Moss arrows eh? I don't pack those too often, I only found them useful once, during Song of the Caverns.

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What is the best level design in a game according to you?

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Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3. Great Level, most hated one as well. It's so ... spooky. Anyone who read the PC gamer article about it will know why. I mean, an orphanage and an asylum? Gah. Still, kudos to the devs for doing that.

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3. Great Level, most hated one as well. It's so ... spooky. Anyone who read the PC gamer article about it will know why. I mean, an orphanage and an asylum? Gah.

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Yes. Seriously. For the initial part of the level, the atmosphere was spooky and suspenseful; after the part where you actually meet the inhabitants, I couldn't play more than fifteen minutes in one sitting. The level was quite different from the others in Thief 3. I didn't actually play very far into it - horror games clearly aren't my thing - and it stopped me from completing the game (I did find a level-bypass cheat code, but didn't use it then, and the game got later uninstalled/wiped out for reasons I've forgotten), but I did read a walkthrough, and things would have gotten even further from the usual. A shame my nerves failed, but it was definately a quite unique level with a very strong atmosphere. I intend to replay and finish the game (including that level, hopefully) later.

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

Hmm. Moss arrows eh? I don't pack those too often, I only found them useful once, during Song of the Caverns.

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They completely muffle any sound caused by running or jumping on surface areas. Since the Trickster is on marble, it's impossible to get to him without one or two moss arrows. Moss arrows play a more dominant role in Thief 2: The Metal Age, because, naturally, everything's metal.

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3. Great Level, most hated one as well. It's so ... spooky. Anyone who read the PC gamer article about it will know why. I mean, an orphanage and an asylum? Gah. Still, kudos to the devs for doing that.

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That level was scarier than Return to the Cathedral. Robbing The Cradle reminded me of The House On Haunted Hill (the remake).

The cradle is the only thing that prevents me from stripping up semtex and exploding in Eidos office, it is pure gaming brilliance. Shame about the rest :no:

Doom is all you need. :book:

Maybe KonigsPlatz in Red Orchestra.

Probably something off KOTOR.
Possibly helms deep in the TTs game.