Going Official

Hey, first I would just like to say I love this mod. The Total War series are the greatest games I have ever played and this mod just makes it greater by making up for all it downfalls, especially the roleplaying/historical. Now the only thing left, though I don't think its in you power, is to fix the AI, but i digress.

I believe EB has turned into the major modification of Total War, there are no others that put as much work into it, or, as far as I know, have so much of a following. Therefore I was wondering why you guys try to work how something the Creative Assembly. Maybe get some official help so more of the dreams you guys have for the game can come about. Also, the mods might be able to be developed quicker. Maybe even total support where they help make the game and you guys merge or something. Whatever it is, but I just think that CA might just doing something for you guys since your mod has become such an integral part of the game.

PS. I hope this came out the right way.

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Originally Posted by Elvenwolf2k

Hey, first I would just like to say I love this mod. The Total War series are the greatest games I have ever played and this mod just makes it greater by making up for all it downfalls, especially the roleplaying/historical. Now the only thing left, though I don't think its in you power, is to fix the AI, but i digress.

I believe EB has turned into the major modification of Total War, there are no others that put as much work into it, or, as far as I know, have so much of a following. Therefore I was wondering why you guys try to work how something the Creative Assembly. Maybe get some official help so more of the dreams you guys have for the game can come about. Also, the mods might be able to be developed quicker. Maybe even total support where they help make the game and you guys merge or something. Whatever it is, but I just think that CA might just doing something for you guys since your mod has become such an integral part of the game.

PS. I hope this came out the right way.

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I don't even think CA supports Rome anymore. It might be a possibility with EB2, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm fairly certain Foot will be around soon to tell you this won't happen. He doesn't know me, but I've lurked around these boards long enough to know him. He won't go for it.

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Originally Posted by Bootsiuv

I don't even think CA supports Rome anymore. It might be a possibility with EB2, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm fairly certain Foot will be around soon to tell you this won't happen. He doesn't know me, but I've lurked around these boards long enough to know him. He won't go for it.

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I dont mean for EB for Rome, I mean for EB in the future like EB 2 and so on. Like I said, kind of make EB an "official" mod or something for the Total Wars

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Originally Posted by Elvenwolf2k

I dont mean for EB for Rome, I mean for EB in the future like EB 2 and so on. Like I said, kind of make EB an "official" mod or something for the Total Wars

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So would the EB team get paid? Or would CA make a ton of money on work they didn't do? It's a slippery slope, my friend. But, I'm no member, so maybe.

Can't remember where, but there is a topic around where EB team members state explicitely that they would never do this and did not want this kind of line of enquiries pursued any further. Can't remember the exact reasons, but they were convincing.

After thinking about it further, this really isn't a good idea for CA. They should have came out with EB a few years ago, and it should have been called Rome: Total War. But the game they came out with was no EB.

Therefore, if they endorsed EB, they would basically be saying "Hey, the original game we made sucks so bad that we have to recommend a community made mod. Afterall, we get our paychecks for doing this, but it's nothing compared to the volunteer work of the community."

Most would wonder why a company endorsed a community made mod. That would basically be saying change the game you just payed for, because it isn't good enough.

EB will likely get recognized. I know PCGamer does a section on community based mods sometimes. Has EB ever been featured in that? I would be real surprised if they hadn't.

If CA is interested they can offer the modders a job they just to PM them right, but the difference here is this mod is born out of inspiration (love) RTW is made for the money so they have deadlines EB doesn't that's why this mod is so complete


That's the whole thing IYAM

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Originally Posted by Sassem

If CA is interested they can offer the modders a job they just to PM them right, but the difference here is this mod is born out of inspiration (love) RTW is made for the money so they have deadlines EB doesn't that's why this mod is so complete


That's the whole thing IYAM

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True, True. Isn't that how Ludens got a job with them? I mean through one of these sites.

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Originally Posted by Bootsiuv

True, True. Isn't that how Ludens got a job with them? I mean through one of these sites.

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Ludens?? :help:


Forget the question found it

Thanks for all the kind words.

I think we are fine as we are.

CA makes TW games. We mod them.
They make money, we get to play a game suit to our vision, that CA just can't make due to time constraints. It is a very delicate balance that exists, I don't think anyone wants to tip it. If CA thinks we 're in it for the money, they will make TW games unmoddable. Then we all lose.

So far as they are concerned, I don't think any EB member would have a problem with their using any/all part of EB in any EB era game they might make.

In fact this is why EB was formed anyway. To assist CA in its depiction of historical warfare, that a game company which has targets to meet and shareholders to appease just does not have the luxury to dwell on.

To any/all who would diss CA... Don't. TW games have been an evolving goodness, each one better than the one before by leaps and bounds. It takes a good long while to make any part of it. Then mods like this here little one, try to make it better. But that wouldn't work if the game itself wasn't good enough for people to buy, or mod-dable enough for us to improve them.

Nothing was made out of zero. It took EB nearly 3 years to reach the status it has today- and consider that we use RTW vanilla cities, and the RTW engine. If CA was to wait that long between each game, SEGA wouldn't oblige, I think.

However, it may work another way around I think. It may be that once CA sees some good idea/concept/unit, next time they pick up the RTW era (or EB era), some of the work we have done will filter in.

The EB team strives for professionalism in every aspect of the mod, but we have the luxury of time and the absence of deadlines and the ability to utterly ignore the desires of the mass market. All of those are critical concerns for CA, and thus the twain shall ne'er meet.

Agreed. I enjoyed RTW immensely, even before EB. Although now I couldn't ever really go back to vanilla, great mods wouldn't have been possible without the already fantastic base game created by CA.

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Originally Posted by Bootsiuv

True, True. Isn't that how Ludens got a job with them? I mean through one of these sites.

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Lusted, right?

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Agreed. I enjoyed RTW immensely, even before EB. Although now I couldn't ever really go back to vanilla, great mods wouldn't have been possible without the already fantastic base game created by CA.

Lusted, right?

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Oh yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry Ludens. :)

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Originally Posted by Kull

The EB team strives for professionalism in every aspect of the mod, but we have the luxury of time and the absence of deadlines and the ability to utterly ignore the desires of the mass market. All of those are critical concerns for CA, and thus the twain shall ne'er meet.

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True....

Also, dont forge fellas, back in the day the EB team wanted to "assist" CA by giving information about the barbarian factions since they are too generic. CA turn them down due to the above post.

HOWEVER! I think EB or EB2 can be used by the History Channel, or the Discovery Channel, to make series about ancient empires and stuff like that. -But we got 2 issued:
-Who knows somebody, that knows somebody in the History Channel or Discovery.
-Will CA be willing to allow such a show to proceed, eventhough thier name will be mentioned. Or will they want some $$ out of preceeds of the show.

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Originally Posted by Bootsiuv

After thinking about it further, this really isn't a good idea for CA. They should have came out with EB a few years ago, and it should have been called Rome: Total War. But the game they came out with was no EB.

Therefore, if they endorsed EB, they would basically be saying "Hey, the original game we made sucks so bad that we have to recommend a community made mod. Afterall, we get our paychecks for doing this, but it's nothing compared to the volunteer work of the community."

Most would wonder why a company endorsed a community made mod. That would basically be saying change the game you just payed for, because it isn't good enough.

EB will likely get recognized. I know PCGamer does a section on community based mods sometimes. Has EB ever been featured in that? I would be real surprised if they hadn't.

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In the old BI announcement (which I can't now relocate on the new forum) CA had made it clear that their games were about the combats and any fun to be had from the campaign map was an afterthought. After reading that - and seeing how they were approaching BI in reducing the number of cities to "speed up" the game, M2TW was no real suprise. It's unfortunate that they have no real desire to work on the campaign but here's hoping that they'll program some hooks for the modders to allow more manipulation of diplomacy, trade, and other non-combat options.

Frankly, while the vanilla RTW was fun for it's time - without EB and other mods I doubt I'd still be playing it (like I don't play M2TW - waiting for EB2.)

To Keravnos: I'm sorry if that seems like a dis of CA. They gave us the engine that made these games possible, however I find that generating combats while ignoring the underlying basics of the campaign map (which they definately use to at least sell the game) is like building a house without adequate building materials. Yes - you get lots of combats but much of the time they are of poor quality. Kudos to them for developing / generating the game as it is and making it moddable but I'm sorry if I'm less than enthusiastic by the lackluster attention to an (IMO) integral part of their product. Here's hoping that someday that will be addressed or they'll make it possible for modders to address it.

Actually, I thought they reduced the amount of cities in BI so we could have more field battles, and play less "Siege:Total War".

About a year and a half ago, a gaming magazine here (the equivalent of PC Gamer: PC Jeux) did a small section on EB. So, EB is recognised.

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Actually, I thought they reduced the amount of cities in BI so we could have more field battles, and play less "Siege:Total War".

About a year and a half ago, a gaming magazine here (the equivalent of PC Gamer: PC Jeux) did a small section on EB. So, EB is recognised.

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LOL now I wish I would have saved the page but it's been years (literally) and the old FAQ it was under is either gone or well buried (can't find it under search) so I'm left with nothing more than my word :(.

If I remember the reasoning in the FAQ properly the number of cities (or so they stated) were reduced because they felt the game needed to be shortened upping the fun and reducing the tedium in the late game. I can certainly understand that reasoning appealing to the mass market they would be concerned with but....I like the tedium :beam: (and I don't think I'm alone in that.)

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Originally Posted by Starforge

In the old BI announcement (which I can't now relocate on the new forum) CA had made it clear that their games were about the combats and any fun to be had from the campaign map was an afterthought.

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Thats funny because I feel the battles are the worse part of the game (but they are still very fun and great) with a large part due to the AI being so easily beat and the auto resolve isn't reliable enough to get fair outcomes to battles, but I digress.


Anyways, EB is a great "mod" (mine as well be called a game) to a great game. the only reason I suggested this is because of the great amount of time and effort but into the mod, you guys are basically building a new game, and even though I hate paying for things you guys I think should get something in return (though, maybe the fact that it is free is why the mod can develop to be so great). So thats what i meant by going official with CA is maybe just they could make some aspect of your modding a little easier by, i dont know, maybe manpower or when they make the games they hear what you goals are and make it easier for you guys to change it. I really dont know what, but maybe CA would be able to help, I mean like many people have said here, Rome: Total War was a great game for a year or a little more, but the mods, especially this one, is what allows the great game's long life.

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Originally Posted by Elvenwolf2k

Thats funny because I feel the battles are the worse part of the game (but they are still very fun and great) with a large part due to the AI being so easily beat and the auto resolve isn't reliable enough to get fair outcomes to battles, but I digress.

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Aye, but player v player combat removes the lackluster AI and I'm sure is what they would hold up as the poster child for the combat system. I've yet to see a recent game save something like unto chess that actually has an AI that's anything better than retarted.

I'm guessing making a "competetive" AI must be very difficult, very costly, and very subjective making the continued development of pretty pictures and access to live players the main direction. Kinda too bad for those of us that don't want to try and schedule their games around live bodies but just want a challenging single player game. Multiplayer removes - in many instances - long term strategy games unless you have a good group of known dedicated friends that you can count on to stick out a game. Very rare.

Galactic Civilizations II has pretty decent AI. Give it a tiny amount of bonus income compared to the player, and it's a good match for most.

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Originally Posted by bovi

Galactic Civilizations II has pretty decent AI. Give it a tiny amount of bonus income compared to the player, and it's a good match for most.

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Yep - BUT - gets a huge advantage in that it knows where every habitable planet and every resource is from day 1 whereas the player has to actively find both. That's a pretty major bonus for the AI as well as just sheer luck as to what's available in your start region of space.

All that being said - you're right that it's still better than most. Damn you - now I'll probably have to start a game......:captain: