Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
I love those Stygian you've made. They're simply wonderful :2thumbsup:
I'm looking forward to more about my all time favorite Hyborian kingdom. :yes:
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Black fiend! The children of Mitra will hunt you down! :P
One of the things that struck me when re-reading Howard was how warlike Stygia was: like Vendhya, their upper classes appear to be specific "warrior-castes", very different from the usual perception of them being generally weak militarily. Of course, this doesn't mean I'll be reducing their sorcerous power, no sir.
Stygia will be the only kingdom to use the "catholic" religion, being changed into the Stygian religion. This way I hope to fiddle about with the Pope and papacy dynamics to recreate the Black Ring of Set (council of Cardinals), giving a bit more depth to Stygian religion. "Crusades" will feature in some form, though very different from what they are now. I don't want to make promises I can't do good on, but I'm currently trying to figure out if natural disasters can be triggered by calling a crusade. If this can be done, whenever a crusade is called on a settlement, that settlement will be ravaged by a Black Plague, wreaking utter havok on the populace. I'd like to see if there's a way of adding other eldritch powers, like causing earthquakes or fires. This would be a bit difficult to do on the battle map (unless you had some sort of "siege sorcerers" that flung Monster Bombard projectiles, which would be ridiculously overpowered), but it would probably work better on the campaign map.
To balance out Stygia's awesome sorcerous power, Inquisitors will be replaced by Children of the Night (sent by the Black Ring in case your faith in Set starts to dwindle) and Heretics will become Rogue Sorcerers seeking to overthrow the Black Ring, and cause much more religious conflict than in the original game. I also hope to include some form of "rock the universe" type event so that if too much sorcery is done, then the balance of reality is shaken somewhat, causing natural disasters in Stygia itself.
This is all dependent on whether triggers can extend to natural disasters, so here's hoping. :2thumbsup:
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Fools, you cannot even fanthom the powers you are rising aganst! There shall be no mercy for the enemies of Set!
Sounds really cool. I really hope you'll be able to pull this off. :yes:
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Sounds very interesting, and hard. Hope the triggers work. That's a good idea for having the great magics occur on the campmap. There has to be some limit as to how frequently this omnipotent magic can be used as you point out. Hope you can do this.
Battle field magic could be linited to having Priests of Set throwing incendary grenades, flaming arrows that explode (a one time per unit thing maybe), maybe ability to have the Priests at different levels capable of doing only certain magics like this. Also, have you though of having maybe a top level 'spawn demon' type of event, if it's possible?? Or if not possible to spawn on the battlefield, just give the Priest's of Set Temple the ability to produce a demon/nameless thing unit such as skeletons, zombies, ghouls, elephant-headed warriors, whatever, you know.
Great stuff you have going and ideas for more.
Chris
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by christof139
Sounds very interesting, and hard. Hope the triggers work. That's a good idea for having the great magics occur on the campmap. There has to be some limit as to how frequently this omnipotent magic can be used as you point out. Hope you can do this.
So do I! *fingers crossed*
Quote:
Battle field magic could be linited to having Priests of Set throwing incendary grenades, flaming arrows that explode (a one time per unit thing maybe), maybe ability to have the Priests at different levels capable of doing only certain magics like this.
The basic Priests of the Black Ring will be a great boost to Stygian troop morale and hurt enemy morale with their terrible incantations, though they will be no slouches in melee combat due to performance-enhancing sorceries. In addition to the Priests there will be Elder Priests and War Priests (the priests with the staff and mace/shield in the screen, which are also officers to the basic Priest unit), the former more morale-boosting but less powerful versions of Priests, the latter priests who are more eager to engage in combat.
The most powerful Stygian sorcerers will be the Adepts of the Black Ring. These extraordinarily resilient and powerful sorcerers can kill *any* normal human with a single strike, and can throw limited volleys of Demon Fire (the naptha bombs of M2TW). They are ridiculously powerful, but small in number (7 in a unit) and so rare that generally only one unit would be seen in a campaign. Stygia will likely start with one at the beginning of the game, so you'd better look after them, and keep them well away from archers.
I have given thought to "siege sorcerers" who specialise in bringing down enemy walls, but so far I haven't been able to get them to attack buildings (apparently only siege engines can do this), but hopefully this can be surmounted.
Quote:
Also, have you though of having maybe a top level 'spawn demon' type of event, if it's possible?? Or if not possible to spawn on the battlefield, just give the Priest's of Set Temple the ability to produce a demon/nameless thing unit such as skeletons, zombies, ghouls, elephant-headed warriors, whatever, you know.
Chris
Hee hee hee, I most certainly have. If the player thinks he can handle the possible repercussions of dealing with devils, the Stygians can summon the risen dead, ghouls, demons of Set, and Devils of the Outer Dark.
The most terrifying unit in the game will be the Nameless Things, which are gigantic monstrosities of gaping maws, flailing tentacles and offensive pseudopods. Remember Thog? Basically his big brothers. Be aware that a great blood sacrifice (and huge amount of gold) will be needed to summon these beasties, and they are liable to run amok in a battle. Their presence in a settlement will also cause a decrease in population each turn, as hapless peasants are sacrificed to appease this demon.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
I have nothing but praise for both the work you do, and just how good thought out everything seems to be.
If only Howard hadn't taken his own life... What great stories left untold... :no:
Still, when we will play your mod, it would be like seeing Hyboria through Howard's eyes, and every AAR will be like a story of his from the magazine that he started writing his stories for. More focused on battles rather than mano-y-mano fights and duels, still it really looks and feels Hyborian, even at this early stage. In fact this feels more like Hyboria, than any other Conan themed game I played.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by keravnos
Still, when we will play your mod, it would be like seeing Hyboria through Howard's eyes, and every AAR will be like a story of his from the magazine that he started writing his stories for. More focused on battles rather than mano-y-mano fights and duels, still it really looks and feels Hyborian, even at this early stage. In fact this feels more like Hyboria, than any other Conan themed game I played.
Wow, that's really high praise, thanks very much! I don't think anyone will make Howard's Conan apart from Conan, but I do endeavour to produce a decent fascimile in the Total War setting.
Generally I agree that the Conan stories do feature more "personal" combat, but that's something that's generally focused on a lot in games, be they the official games or mods. There are some excellent mods for Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights, Unreal Tournament and the like when it comes to actually "being" Conan and running about splitting skulls, but that's only part of the grand mythos of the Hyborian Age. Tales like Black Colossus, A Witch Shall be Born and The Hour of the Dragon read more like grand war stories, and there hasn't really been an attempt to bring that aspect of Conan to gaming.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranaich
So do I! *fingers crossed*
The basic Priests of the Black Ring will be a great boost to Stygian troop morale and hurt enemy morale with their terrible incantations, though they will be no slouches in melee combat due to performance-enhancing sorceries. In addition to the Priests there will be Elder Priests and War Priests (the priests with the staff and mace/shield in the screen, which are also officers to the basic Priest unit), the former more morale-boosting but less powerful versions of Priests, the latter priests who are more eager to engage in combat.
The most powerful Stygian sorcerers will be the Adepts of the Black Ring. These extraordinarily resilient and powerful sorcerers can kill *any* normal human with a single strike, and can throw limited volleys of Demon Fire (the naptha bombs of M2TW). They are ridiculously powerful, but small in number (7 in a unit) and so rare that generally only one unit would be seen in a campaign. Stygia will likely start with one at the beginning of the game, so you'd better look after them, and keep them well away from archers.
I have given thought to "siege sorcerers" who specialise in bringing down enemy walls, but so far I haven't been able to get them to attack buildings (apparently only siege engines can do this), but hopefully this can be surmounted.
Hee hee hee,
I most certainly have. If the player thinks he can handle the possible repercussions of dealing with devils, the Stygians can summon the risen dead, ghouls, demons of Set, and Devils of the Outer Dark.
The most terrifying unit in the game will be the Nameless Things, which are gigantic monstrosities of gaping maws, flailing tentacles and offensive pseudopods. Remember Thog? Basically his big brothers. Be aware that a great blood sacrifice (and huge amount of gold) will be needed to summon these beasties, and they are liable to run amok in a battle. Their presence in a settlement will also cause a decrease in population each turn, as hapless peasants are sacrificed to appease this demon.
Oh yeah, I saw that thread with the demonic creatures that you posted beforehand, but I obviously or obliviouly forgot about it. :ahh:
Neat ideas about the Priests of Set. Hmmm, maybe give the Stygian Siege Sorcerers a tube-like affair on wheels or a small mobile idol of Set with a couple of assistants, a bombard in other words, and that may work. Or you would have to replace a bombard/cannon unit with the model of a Priest of Set and have the a Bombard Firing FX to the Priest, maybe have the FX start at the center of the Priest's chest and he would then be enveloped in flame and smoke as the magic missile left him for its target, or assign the FX to his staff. You could change the colors of the FX and add hues of green and blue to it and the same for the smoke with maybe the smoke having a purple tint to it. An experienced model-maker and animator could easily do this I believe.
Chris
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Interesting idea there, but I don't want to use too many fireball effects. Generally Howard's most bombastic and impressive magics are caused by something which seems minor: Thugra Khotan's "proximity mine" was mysterious dust, and we don't really see what Xaltotun did to cause the cliffs at Valkia to collapse.
At the moment I have a small unit of Stygian sorcerers using the Monster Bombard shot to imitate the awesome destructive power of earthquake magic, though this sadly only extends to troops right now, and it's weird seeing the sorcerers chuck rocks the size of their torsos. :sweatdrop:
I've been working on new projectiles: Stygian arrows will act like normal arrows, but the model will be replaced with a longer, meaner black version so that the sky will blacken with each volley. :beam: I'm tempted to give them the "launching" attribute so a successful kill sends the poor victim flying a bit. Hyrkanian arrows will be similar to normal ones, with a much longer range, but I can't quite judge what 1500 feet would be in the parameters.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
I think that the idea of having Stygian sorcerers using and idol, altar, whatever seems more Howard to me than merly waving with the hand to send magic away. In most cases in the Conan stories, if memory serves, the magic have been preapered by the sorcerer before the use. They often have something planned and made out in advance, insteed of just standing and chanting a spell that might be useful at the moment.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkhal
I think that the idea of having Stygian sorcerers using and idol, altar, whatever seems more Howard to me than merly waving with the hand to send magic away. In most cases in the Conan stories, if memory serves, the magic have been preapered by the sorcerer before the use. They often have something planned and made out in advance, insteed of just standing and chanting a spell that might be useful at the moment.
Exactly. Generally the siege sorcerers would be representative of priests who are trained and prepared for siege techniques. They'd be relatively quick to recruit, but have extreme recruitment and upkeep costs to represent the use of dangerous and costly resources needed for such spells (importing various alchemical ingredients, summoning demons to gain some sorcerous advice etc), so it would be better hiring them for one campaign and then disbanding them when they're not needed immediately.
I'd quite like to make the "Black Hand of Set" a graphical effect too, so when an adept kills someone on the battlefield they turn black. Don't know how this can be done though.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranaich
Interesting idea there, but I don't want to use too many fireball effects. Generally Howard's most bombastic and impressive magics are caused by something which seems minor: Thugra Khotan's "proximity mine" was mysterious dust, and we don't really see what Xaltotun did to cause the cliffs at Valkia to collapse.
At the moment I have a small unit of Stygian sorcerers using the Monster Bombard shot to imitate the awesome destructive power of earthquake magic, though this sadly only extends to troops right now, and it's weird seeing the sorcerers chuck rocks the size of their torsos. :sweatdrop:
I've been working on new projectiles: Stygian arrows will act like normal arrows, but the model will be replaced with a longer, meaner black version so that the sky will blacken with each volley. :beam: I'm tempted to give them the "launching" attribute so a successful kill sends the poor victim flying a bit. Hyrkanian arrows will be similar to normal ones, with a much longer range, but I can't quite judge what 1500 feet would be in the parameters.
Hi, Thanx. Yeah, I understand and agree about having too many fireballers. Maybe just make them expensive an limit their number if possible, and/or assign them to be produced from a high level building, and/or have maybe only one prodution building for them limited to just one sity such as the capital and that may solve someone spamming fireballers.
An Ice Wizard type similar to the fireballer may be neat for Hyperborea and/or Vannaheim and Asgard or maybe just Hyperborea.
For wizard dust just use smoke or fog.
Too much and too fantastical and powerful magic will ruin a game, and lack of any magic for a fantasy game will also ruin it. I am sure you will develope a good balance though.
1,500 feet would be about equal to 1.5 to 2 times the max. range of an English longbow, somewhere near there more or less. Or don't worry about it too much and give them a bit more range than a Mongol or even a Byzantine Composite Bow. Something like that will be close or nearly close.
BFME uses the Knockback Ability for Elven Archers - you might have played it - and it is a bit too much as it is in vanilla, but if it were toned down a good deal it would be OK. Too much of that power would look to phony.
Chris
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
I think there's a way to enforce a worldwide limit on a unit so there aren't to many of them running about, which would be helpful against spamming with particularly powerful mages.
One spell I really want to try and implement is the Puffy Clouds of Doom used by the Black Circle:
[]iThey all saw it - a white puffball of smoke that tumbled over the tower-rim and came drifting and rolling down the slope toward them. Others followed it. They seemed harmless, mere woolly globes of cloudy foam, but Conan stepped aside to avoid contact with the first. Behind him one of the Irakzai reached out and thrust his sword into the unstable mass. Instantly a sharp report shook the mountainside. There was a burst of blinding flame, and then the puffball had vanished, and the too-curious warrior remained only a heap of charred and blackened bones. The crisped hand still gripped the ivory sword-hilt, but the blade was gone, melted and destroyed by that awful heat. Yet men standing almost within reach of the victim had not suffered except to be dazzled and half blinded by the sudden flare.[/i]
I think this would be really awesome on the battlefield: pretty puffy balls of mist rolling ominously towards an army, who have to get out the way or get fried. I'm not sure how slow I can make the projectiles, but I'd like to make them just slow enough so that they can hit an enemy line relatively quickly, but long enough to savour the poor saps who don't shift.
I'd have to think of a more ominous name than Puffy Clouds of Doom though :beam:
I'm re-scouring the tales for spells that would be possible on the battlefield. Generally I'm viewing the sword/sorcery unit balance as being roughly 75-80% mundane, the remaining 20-25% being sorcerers/demons/beasties. There will be no "weak" sorcerous units, all of them will either be elite warriors or elite special units. There will be variations (the Hyborian nations will have very few sorcerous units, whereas Stygia will naturally have a much larger variety), but overall that seems to be the number, so that it'll have enough magic to do Howard justice without it being hokey or too D&Dish.
At the moment the knockback is pretty ridiculous since I'm using the scorpion missile as a placeholder (a leftover from RTW), so each arrow blasts through an enemy line like a cannon! Naturally this is too much, I think toning it down so the shot man is just knocked off his feet would be sufficient. I might extend this to javelins, I always thought being hit by a javelin would make you at least stagger backwards.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Hmmmm? :idea2: How about 'Fluffy Clouds of Doom'?!!? :skull: :dizzy2: :laugh4: :no:
Those clouds would be pretty interesting and neat. 'Fog of Doom' maybe.
Yeah, getting hit by a spear or javelin may knock you off your feet, same for an arrow actually, sometimes a baseball, hardball variety, can knock a person for a loop if it is thrown very hard and hits at the right spot at the right time, and not only the force of impact but your own reaction to the pain can add to the knockback, same for a soccer ball/football .
Chris
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Hmm, fluffy does sound marginally more sinister than puffy... :dizzy2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by christof139
Those clouds would be pretty interesting and neat. 'Fog of Doom' maybe.
Fog of Doom will be another spell: it will be a thick sorcerous pea-souper that will confuse and disorient the enemy, as well as hide an army's troops. It won't really do anything against the AI apart from a decrease in morale, but it will cause problems for the human player. When I port it over to Kingdoms after the first release it will cause units to stop moving due to the mist, like "Byzantine politics".
Since this power has been used by priests of Asura as well as Set, these will be available to all factions with a suitably large temple to their dedicated religion, since this seems to be a form of magic used by many sorcerers.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
That's interesting. Chris
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
From Black Colossus:
"[Natohk's] warriors covered the desert with their numbers, and he had five thousand Stygian troops in war-chariots under the rebel prince Kutamun."
Later in the story the host of Natohk arrives before Conan's army, and the war-chariots are described like so:
Quote:
First was a long line of chariots, drawn by the great fierce horses of Stygia, with plumes on their heads -- snorting and rearing as each naked driver leaned back, bracing his powerful legs, his dusky arms knotted with muscles. The fighting-men in the chariots were tall figures, their hawklike faces set off by bronze helmets crested with a crescent supporting a golden ball. Heavy bows were in their hands. No common archers these, but nobles of the South, bred to war and the hunt, who were accustomed to bringing down lions with their arrows.
The nobles who man the war-chariots then dismount and lead the charge on foot, so we might also consider a heavy foot unit of dismounted Stygian nobles:
Quote:
Conan stood among the spearmen. He knew the invaders would not try to drive a chariot charge up the Pass in the teeth of the archers, but he grunted with surprise to see the riders dismounting....
The horde had formed into a huge wedge, of which the tip was the Stygians and the body, the mailed asshuri, flanked by the nomads. In close formation, shields lifted, they rolled onward, while behind them a tall figure in a motionless chariot lifted wide-robed arms in grisly invocation....
As the horde entered the wide valley mouth the hillmen loosed their shafts. In spite of the protective formation, men dropped by dozens. The Stygians had discarded their bows; helmeted heads bent to the blast, dark eyes glaring over the rims of their shields, they came on in an inexorable surge, striding over their fallen comrades....
Men died like flies in the valley and along the slopes--and with a roar and an irresistible upward surge the Stygians crashed against the mercenaries.
In a hurricane of thundering steel, the lines twisted and swayed. It was war-bred noble against professional soldier.
Shields crashed against shields, and between them spears drove in and blood spurted.
Also note that the Stygian nobles do not break as the rest of Natohk's horde does, but rather die to the last man:
Quote:
Bracing their feet in the wallowing sea of blood whose crimson waves lapped about their ankles, the pikemen in the Pass mouth drove forward, crushing strongly against the milling ranks before them. The Stygians held, but behind them the press of the asshuri melted; and over the bodies of the nobles of the South who died in their tracks to a man, the mercenaries rolled, to split and crumple the wavering mass behind.
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
I was wondering why nobody was thinking to make a mod about the conan's hyborian time , and instead here we are someone it' s doing it!!!!:smash:
I like most of the factions and I think u get it right in most of the case but the stygians are wrong!
they should look like egyptians :egypt: , Do u read only the books or did u read any of the comics like savage sword's ect.?
u should take a look to the art of barry Windsor smith and Jhon Buscema and even the new series of the Dark horse it's not bad at all!
Re: The Kingdom of Stygia
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taranaich
Hmm, fluffy does sound marginally more sinister than puffy... :dizzy2:
Fog of Doom will be another spell: it will be a thick sorcerous pea-souper that will confuse and disorient the enemy, as well as hide an army's troops. It won't really do anything against the AI apart from a decrease in morale, but it will cause problems for the human player. When I port it over to Kingdoms after the first release it will cause units to stop moving due to the mist, like "Byzantine politics".
Since this power has been used by priests of Asura as well as Set, these will be available to all factions with a suitably large temple to their dedicated religion, since this seems to be a form of magic used by many sorcerers.
Then simply 'Clouds of Doom', :idea2: or 'Dark Clouds of Doom'.