"You broke my heart, Fredo" - aka Worthless Heirs

I wanted to get input on this.

If you wind up with an heir who couldn't pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel, what are the pros and cons of having the little schmuck put out of his misery?

I know it could spark a civil war, but are there Vices associated with a successful pruning of the family tree?

I have a son with a valor of -2. THAT'S NEGATIVE TWO!!! The kid wets himself within bowshot of an enemy army.

I would have put him on ice a long time ago, but his mother would never let me hear the end of it.

I just let worthless heirs die.

So long as they're not completely crappy, I'll let my heirs be.

If they're truly terrible, however (such as having 0-1 command, acumen, etc., and/or nasty vices), I'll get rid of them. My usual method of doing away with a poor heir is to send him on a one-way trip to invade some far-off, gods-forsaken province -- preferrably an island, so that way I can refuse his ransom if he's captured. (Ireland, Rhodes, and Cyprus have seen the executions of many of my sons in numerous campaigns.) ~;p

afiak only assassins got the risk of causing civil wars if they fail (and it won't happen if there's a strong king ruling).

So they usually leads a glourious army of 20 men against the largest enemy stack they can find all in the name of thier magnificant father. :laugh4:

I almost always leave my heir alone, however bad they are, it makes the game more interesting

if im in need of a strong heir, the poor candidate gets to have a heroic death in battle, often shot in the back etc.

:2thumbsup:

Now you're talking my language, Prussian.

Same as everyone, I send them off on a suicide mission, usually once his younger brother has come of age.

I pretty much always kill off any heir that is not as good as a potential heir, such as his younger brother with 6 command stars instead of 5.

Aye, suicide mission is the way to go here. AFAIK there is no real consequences for it. Just as long as you have a spare of age, it should be fairly seamless. As Martok suggested I also go the far off island route, just in case he somehow slithers away.

Barring that route, the flock of assassins works just as well. I havent actually tried to use an inquisitor on an heir. Can it be done? Will it work? Has anyone done it?

Tending the Ruling family tree is one of my favorite pastimes. Especially once the Influence gets up to the 7+ range, and you get heirs worth getting.

Okay, looks like the results are in :idea2:

I was always told to worry about my mortality if the phrase "diversionary assault" appears anywhere in the Op Order.

Looks like junior is going for a boat ride . . .

The painful thing is, he has a four star command rating. As long as I keep him out of the line of fire and directing traffic, he may be good to go.

On the other hand, maybe I can get him a staff job somethere :book:

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Originally Posted by Sensei Warrior

I havent actually tried to use an inquisitor on an heir. Can it be done? Will it work? Has anyone done it?

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Ha! Heirs?! I've gone even further. I've even put my own king on trial for heresy before. Actually, its a rather amusing message you get when confirming it. "My lord, it is not my place to speak on this, but are you sure you want to put YOURSELF on trial for heresy?" Anyways, yah, inquisitors can work plenty fine, just like putting any enemy's heirs on trial for heresy(which is rather fun, if you ask me).

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Originally Posted by Garnier

I pretty much always kill off any heir that is not as good as a potential heir, such as his younger brother with 6 command stars instead of 5.

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Sometimes it's necessary to prune the family tree to ensure healthy future growth.

I posted this account - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...73#post1566373 - of how I ensured the right heir took over my Almohad empire.

With princes, the "Uriah the Hittite" approach (i.e. send them on a suicide mission) approach will often work, but with kings they can get captured (costing you a hefty ransom) or escape (picking up "cowardly" vices). I'm usually content to leave bad kings on the throne, even excommunicated ones (sometimes it's just easier to kill the Pope!)

Four stars isn't bad. Is his valour the only problem with your heir? He won't be in any battles ones he's king so valour isn't important as king.

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Originally Posted by greaterkhaan

Ha! Heirs?! I've gone even further. I've even put my own king on trial for heresy before. Actually, its a rather amusing message you get when confirming it. "My lord, it is not my place to speak on this, but are you sure you want to put YOURSELF on trial for heresy?" Anyways, yah, inquisitors can work plenty fine, just like putting any enemy's heirs on trial for heresy(which is rather fun, if you ask me).

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Sometimes that can be a smart move, even if you want to keep your king. As far as I know, a king can get very positive traits for surviving successive heresy trials. I'm not sure about negative ones, if somebody could elaborate on that please?

Putting your king on trial for heresy can get him the atheist vice. -8 piety means inquisitors can burn him rather easily.

Beware: I sent my royal family on kamikaze missions, and despite I had royal blood generals, I got the "end of dinasty" defeat.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Sometimes that can be a smart move, even if you want to keep your king. As far as I know, a king can get very positive traits for surviving successive heresy trials. I'm not sure about negative ones, if somebody could elaborate on that please?

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There's also a chance a general (or I'm guessing King or Heir) can get a Virtue that makes him really hard to burn. 'Born Again' or 'Repentant' or some such thing. I cant remember the names of them right now but they are out there.

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Originally Posted by Brave_Sir_Robin

Putting your king on trial for heresy can get him the atheist vice. -8 piety means inquisitors can burn him rather easily.

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See above. Like I eluded to, I've never tried it with the Royal Family, but while training up Inquisitors, or trying to rid myself of pesky generals, I've seen these traits proc. It's been awhile since I've played the burn game, but I do remember that one of them was pretty much a death-knell to getting the 'victim' removed. I had to resort to knife-in-the-back tactics after that.

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Originally Posted by The Unknown Guy

Beware: I sent my royal family on kamikaze missions, and despite I had royal blood generals, I got the "end of dinasty" defeat.

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That's weird. If you have at least 2 royal generals, there should have been a civil war. :inquisitive: Are you sure they were both of royal blood (as opposed to having died off and were replaced by a non-royal general of equal ability)?

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Originally Posted by Sensei Warrior

See above. Like I eluded to, I've never tried it with the Royal Family, but while training up Inquisitors, or trying to rid myself of pesky generals, I've seen these traits proc. It's been awhile since I've played the burn game, but I do remember that one of them was pretty much a death-knell to getting the 'victim' removed. I had to resort to knife-in-the-back tactics after that.

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Simply proceed trialing them, after they've gotten the piety improving line maxed out (+6 piety and -6 dread) they'll get the atheist line.

I'm getting paranoid with losing heirs. I'm playing with the English in BKBs (wonderful fantastic brilliant) mod and I'm again riding a knife edge with heirs. I have a two year old nephew of the current king, who is 60 himself, with another brother from the original group at 38. I've lost an Almohad, Spain and Byzantine campaign from no heirs. Maybe all my boys play for the wrong team...

Otherwise I just put up with them. Silly maybe, but at least I won't lose from that!

Azi

Heh. Yeah, you gotta love those campaigns where you have so few heirs that you can't even afford to sacrifice the bad ones! They can be very frustrating at times, but they can also be an interesting challenge -- seeing if you can guide your faction to prosperity despite its ruling family being a bunch of inbred drunken louts. ~;p

Hey I resemble, err, I mean, resent that remark! :laugh4:

Actually I have on chance made exceptional hiers out of worthless ones. The best way of doing it is through happiness, acumen or peity (easiest to obtian). I then go on a conquering spree, speard my forces as thinly as possible, anger an uncle or relative, give him many troops, retreat like mad to drive down loyalty and influence, and BAM! civil war! Now you may be asking the sanity in such a thing but it actually (to me at least) gives several advantages...

1) If the Ringleader is good, then side with him and start all over!
2) If you stick with the loyalists, then you will have the ability to conquer many provinces and gain much in command along the way. In addition, it appears that you lose little to no influence in a civil war, so you will infact drive up your influence in doing so.

I generally manage to have a 6 influence, 4 piety, 4 dread, 4 command, 4 acumen Faction ruler.

If I sense a weakness in the royal family line, I now send the heir or other prince off on a 'special misson'. He is to lead a special 'elite' band of soldiers into incursions in enemy territory to scout ahead of the main force (which unbeknown to them never arrives). If there are any other units which are massively depleted or led by overweight cretins, they go with him. Also I hire those mercenary units which have about 3 knights in them. Then the force (usually under 150 strong/weak) are to engage the enemy and take the land for the King. It's sometimes fun to watch one or two knights in a unit take on an entire enemy force. There is no retreat - they must fight or die. Because of the sneaky nature of the mission, the King will claim the force were renegades and accept no responsibility if the force is captured and no ransom will be paid. That usually gets rid of a prince and if he somehow manages to win the battle (often neighbouring allies will join in if you send a small force) then the prince is spared.... until the next time.

I actually had a campaign where ok I was cheating a bit - picked an island faction, added a million florins, then stuck on the construction cheat and teched up the island. Then occasionally i'd send out these tiny forces of royal knights and mercenary knights into enemy territory. It's great fun when they kill about 6 times their own number before finally succumbing to the might of the enemy. Even better when they win and allies get involved. Made a change from turtling and then sending out massive armies as is the usual method when not cheating.


Anyway there is nothing wrong with weeding out the weak family members. The royal line should stay strong. Course eventually you usually still end up with an idiot if the strong one doesn't get to the throne in time or doesn't have kids. C'est la vie.

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Originally Posted by professorspatula

Because of the sneaky nature of the mission, the King will claim the force were renegades and accept no responsibility if the force is captured and no ransom will be paid.

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Ahh, nothing like Plausible Deniability to keep the Executive's Hands Clean.