Will Osama be replacing Howard Dean as the Chairman of the Dems?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...l-tape-ir.html

Looks like they have many of the same beliefs. :laugh4:
Wow to be aligned with this guy must be sumthin'

Man i hate that guy, but he cant live for ever.

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Originally Posted by K COSSACK

Man i hate that guy, but he cant live for ever.

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He starting to look like the "Weekend at Bernies" guy. Something's fishy...

Lol, he praised Noam Chomsky.

As if I needed more reason to dislike him.

CR

Osama Bin Laden agreeing with a Jewish professor?
Who says the War on Terrorism hasn't produced anything positive?

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Wow to be aligned with this guy must be sumthin'

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Aligned as in spending tens of billions to kill him? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by OBL

... the Democrats haven't made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war there.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Looks like they have many of the same beliefs.

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Nah, sounds more like a supply sider Republican to me, Dave. :beam:

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Originally Posted by OBL

"To conclude," bin Laden says, "I invite you to embrace Islam." He goes on to say: "There are no taxes in Islam, but rather there is a limited Zakaat [alms] totaling 2.5 percent."

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Osama bin Laden as the IRS official.

"Well Mr Jones, it seems your taxes were filled out... correctly."
"That's great Mr. Laden, so why am I in here?"
"Well, it's the other taxes that you have to pay."
(Silence)
"I thought that we only had to pay 2.5% of our income."
"Well, you are an infidel."
"And...?"
"Well, Mr. Jones, that means you have a 4.5% tax on not being Muslim, $200 fine for being an American, $150 fine for supporting the New England Patriots, the list goes on and on. You even failed to pay the 'No Beard Tax'. (Shakes head) Shame Mr. Jones. Shame."

I think it's an interesting strategy by OBL here. Most of the stuff what he said which was lifted from what people in the USA said first, is actually quite agreeable to any reasonable person. It makes it harder to completely demonize OBL since now he's gone on to make some very valid points, even though he's not the first one to make them.

I think he's mad he's not a "priority" anymore to the likes of Bush, Rice and Coulter so he's attention starved. He'll be making music videos and bad sitcoms soon.

So Bin Laden agrees about Global Warming, Noam Chomsky and the grass green so that make Global Warming inexistent, Noam Chomsky wrong an the grass red?
Nothing really in his speech: Yes G. W. Bush was re-elected, yes the US are fighting a dirty war (and thanks for the training by the way…), the Tiger is still in paper, etc…
Inviting US to convert is just the application of the Koran (8.38, 8.3 and 9.5)…

I prefer “Close your Koran. Think and watch freely the sky and Earth” (Omar Khayyâm / 1048-1122 / Rubayat)

Brenus , do you think he should have stuck to the original script from years ago ?
You know stuff like get your troops out , stop supporting dictators and stop giving Israel carte blanche...it was quite reasonable back then wasn't it...perhaps even very mild from what there is today

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

Osama Bin Laden agreeing with a Jewish professor?
Who says the War on Terrorism hasn't produced anything positive?

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"Well Mr Jones, it seems your taxes were filled out... correctly."
"That's great Mr. Laden, so why am I in here?"
"Well, it's the other taxes that you have to pay."
(Silence)
"I thought that we only had to pay 2.5% of our income."
"Well, you are an infidel."
"And...?"
"Well, Mr. Jones, that means you have a 4.5% tax on not being Muslim, $200 fine for being an American, $150 fine for supporting the New England Patriots, the list goes on and on. You even failed to pay the 'No Beard Tax'. (Shakes head) Shame Mr. Jones. Shame."

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Osama and Bush have to be like the bestest friends in the entire world.

A suggestion: We need a new version of Godwin's Law for anyone who equates another person or party to Osama bin Laden. Maybe we could call it Lemur's Law? Or if that's too egotistical, Rove's Law?

I think there should be a
"Marshal's Law" where if someone is equated to Bush, they lose the argument.
Lemur's law could work too, but I like mine better.

On a side note:

I think Osama has done wonders with the new stylist. Beard's in much better trim, a little "Just for Men" action going on. Much improved style.

And who says a Jihadist can't "make a statement" too!

:cheesy:

Most of the things bin Laden says in the statement are true, however, and cant be dismissed out of hand because some portray him as a "bloodthirsty lunatic", etc. His words fall on very receptive ears across a large part of the world, and his band have taken on a sort of Robin Hood-ish pale versus the U.S. bumbling sheriff of nottingham. The admiration he receives even among moderate Muslim states and populations is openly talked about in many cities of the world, and he does have good points about American imperialism and hubris.

We shouldn't dismiss his words as propaganda; to do so is folly as much as believing our own propaganda is.

Yes Zak, we all know Osama has your vote for man-of-the-year, every year. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

Most of the things bin Laden says [...] cant be dismissed out of hand because some portray him as a "bloodthirsty lunatic", etc.

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Who is this "some" you speak of? In what was is he not bloodthirsty? In what way is he not a lunatic?

Are we talking about the same guy?

You have to understand the cultural and social underpinnings of Salafist doctrine and Islamic history and culture in general. From the point of view of the Islamic world, bin Laden's message holds validity and truth, as well as courage to oppose the oppressor. In the intelligence field you have to understand your enemy and his beliefs and reasons for those beliefs.

UBL's message is not radical or insane. He is simply preaching a devout adherance to the laws of God, as he sees them. Despite the propaganda put out by "the West" (i.e., The U.S.), the goal of "Islamism" or "Islamists" is not to destroy the United States but rather to wage war militarily against the invasion of the lands of Islam. The U.S. has been occupying what UBL sees as his homeland and that of Islam for some 30+ years now. He sees his campaign as a defensive jihad, which is the duty of all Muslims, everywhere. Which is why alot of 'moderates' are open to his message as well.

Alot of people don't understand that UBL and AQ have nothing to do with the war in Iraq, despite the "AQIZ" banner. The Sunni insurgency in Iraq is about tribal power shifts against a theocratic Shia government, while foreign jihadis are simply that.

That being said, though, there's no way to change the opinion of the Islamic world about the U.S. now. We've made our bed, so we might as well lie in it. It will take some vicious fighting and countless deaths to 'win' this war, but killing is the only way forward now.

A good book on the topic those interested in learning about why these things are true is the "Imperial Hubris" book. You can also learn alot on Salafism in general through various articles on JSTOR, etc.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

UBL's message is not radical or insane.

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We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Read The Looming Tower for an in-depth look at the formation of Al Qaeda, and you'll see that the U.S.A.'s culture and lifestyle has everything to do with why they're mad at us.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

He is simply preaching a devout adherance to the laws of God, as he sees them. Despite the propaganda put out by "the West" (i.e., The U.S.), the goal of "Islamism" or "Islamists" is not to destroy the United States but rather to wage war militarily against the invasion of the lands of Islam. The U.S. has been occupying what UBL sees as his homeland and that of Islam for some 30+ years now. He sees his campaign as a defensive jihad, which is the duty of all Muslims, everywhere.

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Strongly disagree. One can preach devout adherence to the laws of God and also be an insane fanatic. In truth, the two go together rather nicely, like peanut butter and chocolate.

I'm all for understanding our enemies and not building them into something they're not, but it's equally dangerous to listen to the rantings of a madman and say, "Oh, he means that in the best possible way."

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Originally Posted by Lemur

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Read The Looming Tower for an in-depth look at the formation of Al Qaeda, and you'll see that the U.S.A.'s culture and lifestyle has everything to do with why they're mad at us.
"

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Ive read that book, its plain wrong. So are books like "Terror, Inc", and "Inside AlQaeda". They completely misrepresent the Salafist history and formation of Islamist ideology.

Dont get me wrong, Qutb was surely pissed off at American indulgence and violence when he visited the US, but these are not the main reasons for the military struggle against America.

For an example, look at the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Islamists fought them because they invaded an Islamic country and tried to wipe out the Islamic faith therein. There were no Islamic attacks on the SU prior to this, nor were there after they withdrew from Afghanistan.

In Islam, there are two types of Jihad, an offensive one and a defensive one. AQ is fighting what they see as a defensive jihad against American imperialism/colonialism in the Islamic lands, having taken the place of Great Britain.

Im not saying I agree with or support this view, but if you read the overwhelming majority of Islamic jurisprudence, Salafi or Wahhabist doctrine and theology, and writings of Al Qaeda correspondents and news journal articles, it gain and again states their reasonings for war and the defensive struggle they are facing, which is due to the fact that America has occupied their lands for several decades with military powers and apostate (as they see it) governments.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

Ive read that book, its plain wrong.

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That's an assertion, not an argument.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

For an example, look at the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Islamists fought them because they invaded an Islamic country and tried to wipe out the Islamic faith therein. There were no Islamic attacks on the SU prior to this, nor were there after they withdrew from Afghanistan.

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With the exception of a little situation called Chechnya. Mujahadeen from Afghanistan did migrate to the fight in Chechnya, and they did take part in suicide missions in Russia proper. Expand on your analogy or abandon it, please.

And the Salafists and Wahhabbists believe they're waging a defensive war? Didn't you know that every war is a defensive war?

Uh, Chechnya is a foreign occupation of an Islamic population. Defenisve jihad to protect a civilian population from foreign army.

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UBL's message is not radical or insane. He is simply preaching a devout adherance to the laws of God, as he sees them.

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As Lemur said, not mutually exclusive.

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Despite the propaganda put out by "the West" (i.e., The U.S.), the goal of "Islamism" or "Islamists" is not to destroy the United States but rather to wage war militarily against the invasion of the lands of Islam.

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Gee, I must have been blinded by all the times they said they want to destroy the 'Great Satan' and the fact that they attacked the WTO, not a military target, and not any of the troops in Saudi Arabia.

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Alot of people don't understand that UBL and AQ have nothing to do with the war in Iraq

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Perhaps not in 2003, but AQ is there now. They claim to be AQ and have ties to AQ, and I haven't seen OBL disavow them.

The thing is, Zak, you tend to ascribe to our bloodthirsty (and yes, OBL is bloodthirsty and vicious) enemies the very best of intentions, while you ascribe to your countrymen the worst of intentions. You take on face value a claim that our enemies are fighting 'defensively' and only in accordance with noble values of their culture, while insist that the USA's invasion of Iraq was do to a bushitlerburton conspiracy.

The fact that you assume the worst possible reasons for our actions and the best possible reasons for the actions of our enemy is interesting.

CR

I dont assume anything. I know because Ive spoken with many captured insurgents and read their missives and published papers all the time. Im telling you what THEIR opinion is. We have to understand how our enemies think, is what I am telling you.

They see the US as a greedy, imperialist monster that is attacking and oppressing their religion all around the world. In some ways, this view is not inaccurate.

On the other hand, we in the West havent been very good at trying to win over the moderate Muslims either, while in fact we ask them to work with us and turn in their jihadi neighbors, which, to a true Muslim, would be akin to denying the Holy Spirit or calling Jesus a liar and a fake.

And AQ has attacked soldiers in Saudi Arabia. Have you not heard of Khobar towers? Nor the myriad other attacks against military installations of the Saudi forces that you won't hear about in your normal media outlets. They are fighting against an occupation of the Middle East by Western armies (the US), not to destroy our country or way of life. Anyone who claims AQ is fighting us because "they hate freedom" is simply naive.

AQIZ is not related to AQ as envisioned by Zawahiri and bin Laden. AQ in fact is a myth and not a real organization. AQ is a conglomerate or alliance of dozens of different rebel groups around the world.

Edit: Inappropriate post.

So if by all these counts, we are an imperialistic and sadistic monster, if we were to vacate the Middle East, would that mean the attacks would stop? I certainly doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

So Zak, does your CO know that you favor the Islamist militants and are secretly hoping for them to win?

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Where does he implie that he wants the Islamist to win.

Edit: Inappropriate post.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

So Zak, does your CO know that you favor the Islamist militants and are secretly hoping for them to win?

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Right were i quoted you the first time