Some Notes

1. There is a problem with Makedonian drinking traits. Antigonos, my Makedonian king, managed to be both abstemious and a heavy drinker at the same time. How can that ever happen?

2. My Makedonian Mesogaios general in Athens switches too quickly between Philhelene and Mishellene. Shouldn't he just hate or love greeks definetely, but especially love Greeks because he was educated in Hellas?

3. Why do Illirian Spearmen get 4 Shield defence and early Roman units only 3? I suppose a big, reinforced Scutum would be the best chance to block anything, better anyway than just a small, wooden round shield.

4. The game says Phalangitai Deuteroi are superior to Pantodapoi Phalangitai, but then I can see no change. The Pantodapoi win most of the time, I think because their weapons are defined as "light" while the Deuteroi are the only "heavy" phalanx in the game. I suppose Greeks are no weaker than their Mid-Eastern counterparts, so this should be effectively changed.

"Light" and "heavy" weapons have no bearing beyond smithy bonuses AFAIK.

1. Yes, the Makedonian drinking traits are all screwed up. My generals gain and lose various drinking traits all the time.

3. I'm sure the EB team has good reasons for giving certain units certain stats that may not seem right to us. It's probably not that the scutum is supposed to be inferior to that Illyrian shield, but that certain unit stats had to be edited for the sake of gameplay or balance.

2. the Pantodopoi Deuteroi are superior due to their Axe, which has an AP value attached to that baby :laugh4: they are, of course less disiplined, aka less morale, but if they get into a complete melee then their Axe should help them out tremendously.

According to those handy trading cards all the phalangitai of the basic level (machimoi, pantodapoi, and deuteroi) have the same morale. With the deuteroi costing more.

1- This is a known issue. It shouldn't be happening but it does. If you can tell us why it is happening we'll give you this ballon:
:balloon2:
It shouldn't bother you in the next release, though.

2- Well, things change and make people feel differently about things then how they used to. I don't think there was bug with this, though. How often does it switch back and forth?

3- There's usually a reason for things like this. I don't know the details of the stats system, so I couldn't tell you what it is though...

4- Phalangitai Deuteroi are Macedonians, so of course they are supperior! Macedonian pride!
Really: :shrug:

4. No, they aren't superior. They are a little worse than Pantodapoi Phalangitai.

;166
type hellenistic infantry pantodapoi phalangitai
dictionary hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_phalangitai ; Pantodapoi Phalangitai
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoi_taxeisphalangitai, 60, 0, 1.15
officer officer_hellenic_officer
mount_effect horse +2, camel +2, elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1.1, 1, 2.2, 2, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.17
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, axe, 0 ,0.165
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 7, 3, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, -4, -3
stat_mental 9, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1285, 321, 40, 60, 1285
ownership romans_julii, romans_brutii, carthage, parthia


;176
type greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
dictionary hellenistic_infantry_taxeis_phalangitai ; Phalangitai Deuteroi
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoi_taxeisphalangitai, 60, 0, 1.15
officer officer_hellenic_officer
officer officer_hellenic_standardbearer
mount_effect horse +2, elephant -1, camel +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1.1, 1, 2.2, 2, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.17
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.1 [Note: +3 to attack is generally worse than ap attribute and higher lethality]
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 7, 3, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1401, 350, 40, 50, 1401 [Note: And they cost too much!]
ownership macedon, thrace

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cybvep

4. No, they aren't superior. They are a little worse than Pantodapoi Phalangitai.

;166
type hellenistic infantry pantodapoi phalangitai
dictionary hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_phalangitai ; Pantodapoi Phalangitai
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoi_taxeisphalangitai, 60, 0, 1.15
officer officer_hellenic_officer
mount_effect horse +2, camel +2, elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest
formation 1.1, 1, 2.2, 2, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.17
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, axe, 0 ,0.165
stat_sec_attr ap
stat_pri_armour 7, 3, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, -4, -3
stat_mental 9, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1285, 321, 40, 60, 1285
ownership romans_julii, romans_brutii, carthage, parthia


;176
type greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
dictionary hellenistic_infantry_taxeis_phalangitai ; Phalangitai Deuteroi
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoi_taxeisphalangitai, 60, 0, 1.15
officer officer_hellenic_officer
officer officer_hellenic_standardbearer
mount_effect horse +2, elephant -1, camel +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1.1, 1, 2.2, 2, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.17
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.1 [Note: +3 to attack is generally worse than ap attribute and higher lethality]
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 7, 3, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 9, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1401, 350, 40, 50, 1401 [Note: And they cost too much!]
ownership macedon, thrace

---

The problem is, my general in Athens switches in a question of seasons sometimes from Philhellene to Mishellene. Should he get a definite stance towards his subjects?

And Phalangitai Deuteroi at least have linothrax and a bit more loyalty, being Hellenic, contrary to these Pantodapoi hordes who don't want to bother with their Hellenic rulers. Pantodapoi and Machimoi should be made more expensive and their armour value should be inferior to Deuteroi, afterall they only get a leather suit or padded cloth, worse than the Deuteroi linen armour.

As for the Scutum, it should be noticed that Hastati wear little armour and rely mostly on their large shield for protection. The Scutum, even the earlier version, was a heavy and formidable protection against anything hostile, and as should the defence value for Roman legions with scuta should be higher. Maybe they could take a bit of the armour defence value to get the same balance as now.