Greek firethrower

Does anybody else think this unit in crusades is too powerful? this unit is perfect for settlement fighting, either def or off. All I do now is put a hole in the wall, take out the towers, advance firethrower with skirmish off, with any infantry unit slightly behind to blunt any charge, and this unit can take out hundreds of enemy at no loss if done right. with this tactic I'm taking over settlements w/ minimal loss. especially when AI puts units in front of hole and they don't charge out, so firethrower is racking up 3-4 exp points/battle just from that alone. since the fire stays on the ground for a few secs, the enemy can't charge through the fire w/out becoming casualty. although been wondering why only a few open fire at a time - think it'll be great if this unit volleyed.

Well, they are one of the best siege units in the game(which is historical). However, they are alot less effective in the field because of their small size and range.

The main problem though is with the AI, they're not programmed to expect the death hose.

What the heck?!

Greek firethrowers were never a unit!!! They can't be portable!!!

Actually greek fire was used in Catapults and there is evidence there was a sypon like unit.

greek flamethrowers.there weakness is archers and ha.with there small unit size they are even easyer to kill by arrows.now back to my byzantine campaign.nothing like haveing 6 free upkeep units in a fort.thank you moding!

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Originally Posted by Heraklios

Actually greek fire was used in Catapults and there is evidence there was a sypon like unit.

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I'm waiting for the sources to back up your claims. Without them, I cannot believe you.

From Wikipedia on Greek Fire:

In its earliest uses it was applied onto enemy forces by firing a burning cloth-wrapped ball, perhaps containing a flask, using a form of light catapult, most probably a sea-borne variant of the Roman light catapult or onager. These were capable of hurling light loads (c. six to nine kilograms—up to twenty pounds) 350-450 meters (approx. four to five hundred yards). Later technological improvements in machining technology enabled the devising of a pump mechanism discharging a stream of burning fluid (flame thrower) at close ranges, devastating wooden ships in naval warfare and also very effective on land as a counter-force suppression weapon used on besieging forces. There are many accounts of the Byzantine Empire driving off attacks on the walls using this devastatingly frightful secret formula.

It wouldn't have been that hard to find youself, take you as long as that snotty post really...

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Well, they are one of the best siege units in the game(which is historical). However, they are alot less effective in the field because of their small size and range.

The main problem though is with the AI, they're not programmed to expect the death hose.

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yep, not too useful on field battlmaps, but one thing i try to do, place them on the flanks, when the front lines are engaged, run them out perpendicular and hit enemy ranks on the side - watch out for enemy cav. oh, and my mistake - it's flamethrowers.

on another note, can't stand mangonels, had one of those oil barrels come flying backwards into my on line and took out a third of pronoi inf. stupid unit.

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Originally Posted by Moah

From Wikipedia on Greek Fire:

In its earliest uses it was applied onto enemy forces by firing a burning cloth-wrapped ball, perhaps containing a flask, using a form of light catapult, most probably a sea-borne variant of the Roman light catapult or onager. These were capable of hurling light loads (c. six to nine kilograms—up to twenty pounds) 350-450 meters (approx. four to five hundred yards). Later technological improvements in machining technology enabled the devising of a pump mechanism discharging a stream of burning fluid (flame thrower) at close ranges, devastating wooden ships in naval warfare and also very effective on land as a counter-force suppression weapon used on besieging forces. There are many accounts of the Byzantine Empire driving off attacks on the walls using this devastatingly frightful secret formula.

It wouldn't have been that hard to find youself, take you as long as that snotty post really...

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damn Edyz, you just got served!

nah just kiddding.

IMO Greek fire is *very* powefull, but not overpowered. I consider them along the lines of Elephants; *very* powefull, but they have their weaknesses (greek firethrowers have missiles as a weakness)

There's a picture from some medieval source of them ontop of a siege tower hosing everyone on the walls. There's also a replica of a man portable Greek Fire pump housed in some museum - you can probably find the picture of it.

And besides, the Chinese also used flame throwers using oil.

Somewhere I've seen an image of that man-portable version. I don't find it completely out of place in the game, but as usual, due to CA's monolithic unit design, what's reasonably accurate in history becomes a bit silly when translated through the game engine. The unit composition inside an army just isn't fine-grained enough. We can't have just a few of these specialty weapon types mixed in with other skirmishers, oh no.... we have to have HUGE blocks of these guys, all firing the same exotic weapon. That's where it gets a bit silly.

What the game needs (IMO) is either a way to subdivide the unit into mixed types when recruiting and retraining, or else just give us more slots for the army, so we could have a few specialists with exotic weapons, without forming them up into ridiculous-looking huge blocks of these guys, all firing that same weapon.

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Originally Posted by Per Ole

damn Edyz, you just got served!

nah just kiddding.

IMO Greek fire is *very* powefull, but not overpowered. I consider them along the lines of Elephants; *very* powefull, but they have their weaknesses (greek firethrowers have missiles as a weakness)

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true enough, no unit is invulverable, but there certainly are ways to avoid any units weaknessess. given flamethrowers short range, no one is going to send them downfield to duel it out w/ archers. however if there is any unit that is underpowered it's missile, to be specific archer, units. even the vaunted longbow, they get off 2-3 volleys, hitting 3-4/volley then the enemy charges, and then the longbowmen start running around like idiots. well, unless you turn off skirmish. but it's not just low hit rate, the accuracy is all over the place. unless you're targeting a mass of slow infantry slowing walking uphill, missile units just take up space. what i'm trying to say, archers are a real dissapointment in contrast to firethrowers. looking at the flamethrowers, they're fairly dead on accurate, well given their range, and spectacurally effective, i've not come accross any other unit, given their 20 member size, that can take out 100-200 enemies - given the right conditions, stupid AI that packs them into a small opening and then stands still for you to hose them w/fire. lol. anybody else know of any other unit that cando that? i've tried to force through w/ reg infantry units and i'm going to take a lot of casuatly, but throw enough men at the breach, and it'll get the job done.