Stupid Cavalry...

Alright, I need some help here. I just got RTW about two weeks ago. I'm currently playing a campaign as the Greeks on medium/medium difficulty and i'm have a lot of trouble. I'm strapped for cash and i'm having to rely almost entirely on hoplites. Their phalanx formations deal with infantry easy enough, but I can't do a thing against cavalry. Now, i'm no expert here, but i'm pretty sure if a unit of light cavalry charges into a wall of spear points, they should die. A single unit of light cav. can completely break my phalanxes with a frontal charge. Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with this?

Militia Hoplites = Fail.

Regular Hoplites = Less Fail.

Armored Hoplites = Pwn.

Spartan Hoplites = Massive Pwnage.

Which kinds are you using?

Use deeper formations, right click and drag.

Do you have it on VH? Because there's a bug (or there used to be) with cavalry and phalanxes on VH that made Cav completely destroy phalanxes.

If not, then just make the formations deeper.

OK, I think i've got it down. I have to make sure the formation is deep enough to stop them, but also wide enough to make sure they don't end up hitting partially on the flanks :dizzy2: . It's tricky at times, but I'm managing well enough. I think the battle that inspired me to post this was kind of a fluke. I had a unit of regular hoplites blocking off a gate, when a unit of equites charged through and ripped them apart. It either must have been a really veteran unit or just got lucky. I've also learned that regular hoplites can't stop heavy cav. You need to use spartans for that. :beam:

Enable guard phalanx mode and they will go into proper formation.

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Originally Posted by Brave_Sir_Robin

I've also learned that regular hoplites can't stop heavy cav. You need to use spartans for that. :beam:

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Normal hoplites CAN, but at gates the enemy gets a bunch of units pushing, which on non-uber units will break through and can wreck havoc on your backside.

Armored Hoplites will be your bread, butter, and Meat once you learn to use them. Spartans are just the rare Cake.

Militia hoplites seem to need high numbers, that being maybe 480 can hold 80 Cavalry.

Regular hoplites with good armour can hold them.

Armoured Hoplites with armour upgrades seem to hold their own very well.

For myself, I avoid using cavalry on any hoplites unless they are already routing. Sometimes though, I also get stupid cavalry who, even when I tell them to go North to avoid the hoplites, will simply turn East and charge right into them. Rarely do any of them survive. Terrible waste, but I recall reading early on in this game that sometimes they ignore their orders and do something else.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

If you double up your hoplites, the second relief force will take care of any cav that break through the first. The first should then be pulled back, reformed and rested. Fatigue seems to be a factor in them being pushed back more easily and allowing enemy cavalry through.

I've easily absorbed charges from multiple units of greek and roman generals' cavalry with Hoplites on H/H difficulty. Militia Hoplites can get by but need to be deployed a bit deeper, amd thus in larger numbers, and will take some more losses. Keep the general close by and be ready to rally in case they begin to waver. If you're deploying in old STW/MTW style double or treble lines then your formations will be ripped apart.

Try a loose formation of peltasts (or other cheapon skirmishers) very close in front of your spears (pike points mixed with the last row). The cavalry hammer the expendable peltasts but lost the charge speed (and bonus) just about the time they arrive at optimum pike range. :devilish:

Labeling my idea as "stupid" :inquisitive:

Oh well, After 2 years in the Backroom with DevDave and Tribesy, I suspect I can suffer through this "affront" without too much wailing or gnashing of teeth. :smartass:

However, I got quite a bit of mileage out of that strategy in vanilla -- especially when I used cheapo slingers. It would frequently draw a cavalry charge and allow me to pike the better horse-troops of a given opforce. Hard on the slinger unit in question, but you all know the old saw about eggs and omelettes.

I don't use that strategy in XGM. Horse charge bonuses and unit defense scores are much more in line and the horse unit that charges pikes frontally will take a beating -- as it should be. Cavalry units still love to hunt slingers, so I still will occasionally set up a slinger as bait -- but much less so than before since the cost of an XGM shooter unit is much higher than vanilla, making the tactic a spendy one.

Hello Brave_Sir_Robin,

Cavalry is pretty strong in RTW. Do you have some of your own to counter?

I tend to use a "sacrificial" infantry line on guard mode to get the worst of enemy missiles and initial charge and have two or three more lines behind to replenish, flank and boost morale and the out numbering penalties.

Phalanxes should beat the cavalry easily without breaking if employed in 4 or more lines deep - some of them need more lines and some less as has been stated.

Getting enemy cavalry out of the way is useful too; just make a blob of your own cavalry and destroy the enemy one on one flank (make sure the other flank will hold while this is happening) - after that just charge the main enemy line from behind.

More elaborate maneuvers than this may get you into trouble in vanilla RTW, the action is pretty fast.

Noir