AI Armies 50% Artillery

G'day lads, i've been playing the Teuton campaign amongst others and its getting to a point where every single AI army is comprised of at least 50% (sometimes more!) of artillery pieces, for the love of god why dosen't the AI have a limit set on how many pieces its allowed on a stack, it makes playing a little silly as there 6 units get engulfed by my army whilst there artillery shoots thousands of meteors at my men.

Is there any mods or anything that either fix the AI being so ridiclous in this regard or completly removes artillery from the game (buildings and units) cause that would be immensly cool.

First step that, then fixing Lithuanian armies of 18 Crossbow millitia or 20 Horse Archers...

This happened to me in my Crusader Campaign and there are only three ways of dealing with it:

1) Destroy the town that's producing them
2) Get lots of cavalry
3) Bring lots of artillery(Mangonels are good).

I chose #3 since the AI will artillery duel you and you can pretty much destroy their army while taking light casualties since siege weapons can be replaced and their untis are fairly hard to hit.

I think it might have something to do with the stats. I had an AI army vs my mostly Cav army lost an Auto-calc because he had gigantic odds in his favor from having so many siege weapons.

How 9 units of Trebuchets and 5 infantry can beat 4 hvy calvs, 4 lt calv, and 4 archers and 2 infantry is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeyGhost

I think it might have something to do with the stats. I had an AI army vs my mostly Cav army lost an Auto-calc because he had gigantic odds in his favor from having so many siege weapons.

How 9 units of Trebuchets and 5 infantry can beat 4 hvy calvs, 4 lt calv, and 4 archers and 2 infantry is beyond me.

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The AI assumes you will play fair and let it shoot you until it runs out of ammo. Just like the other way around.

(That might actually make a nice sig)

ROFL. that is the reason why i am looking forward to ETW - since AI is pretty much treating one army as one entity - stand and shoot, stand and be shot-at and stand-and-stand. at least in ETW, there might actually be a serious artillery/missile duel instead of lopsided-deaths.

i have given the all the AI units lots of money (king's purse 10000k+!), and i was forced to use some artillery (despite my skeptic of its slow marching speed) because i am sick of being forced to bum rush every man, horses and chickens just to avoid the flaming balls of sudden death.

Is there a mod that fixes this? I usualy never use mods but for this annoying reason alone i might start playing mods..

doubt it. unless you count these as mod:

1. Diplomat - bribe the opposing armies into "civil war" <- which is where i got my artillery(ies) from .

2. Training your army to be in Olympic 1300 marathorn / aka Bum-rush.

i guess i ranted too much, but since i gifted all AI fractions with 10K florings of king's purse, i expected that they will invest in higher quality units, not chopping down forests and increasing greenhouse effect.:gathering:

EDIT - sorry i stood corrected - there are MODS (TSARDOM on this website) that tries to address the imbalance of AI armies.

You can mod this :juggle2:
In the EDU txt file, after every unit stats there is a line like this:
" Recruitment rate importance" (something like this, I do not remember exactly). It is the last line for this unit.
Parameters used are between -20 and 25.
If you want AI to produce less units from this type, just put this parameter to maximum (as bigger is the parameter, as less is the producement of this unit).

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Originally Posted by bggeneral

You can mod this :juggle2:
In the EDU txt file, after every unit stats there is a line like this:
" Recruitment rate importance" (something like this, I do not remember exactly). It is the last line for this unit.
Parameters used are between -20 and 25.
If you want AI to produce less units from this type, just put this parameter to maximum (as bigger is the parameter, as less is the producement of this unit).

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Where's this EDU file?! I'd like to do the same with crossbows, peasant archers, etc. I looked under DATA and had no idea where to look from there!

You need to unpack it.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

You need to unpack it.

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Where do you find it?? How do you unpack it?? Is there a thread that explains how? Sorry. A bit techno challenged here.

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Originally Posted by bggeneral

You can mod this :juggle2:
In the EDU txt file, after every unit stats there is a line like this:
" Recruitment rate importance" (something like this, I do not remember exactly). It is the last line for this unit.
Parameters used are between -20 and 25.
If you want AI to produce less units from this type, just put this parameter to maximum (as bigger is the parameter, as less is the producement of this unit).

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I have mod this in 2 ways in my Britain Campaign:

1. Mod the export_descr_unit file to lower the recruit_priority_offset for artillery.

For example, the default of the priority offset of peasant is -35, spear militia is -25, Armored Sergeants is 20 and those artillery is 18~25. So the AI will recruit artillery in their cities most of the time but not those militia unit. And since there are like 4 cities to 1 castle ratio in game, the AI will turn out with 50% + artillery army.

What i have done is mod the artillery offset to 0 or 5, spear militia as 0 therefore the AI will recruit more spear militia if they dont have much castle left.

2. Mod the export_descr_buildings file to lower the recruit pool of artillery.

Meanwhile, i have lower the siege or cannon building's recruiting pool for artillery as well. I have mod it so each artillery will take 4 turns to become avaiable and have a maximum pool of 1, instead of 3 in default.

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Originally Posted by Cid

Where do you find it?? How do you unpack it?? Is there a thread that explains how? Sorry. A bit techno challenged here.

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You could read the the learning to mod section. There are many nice thread guiding how to set up a mod folder etc...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76289

Thanks RC.

I'm going to give it a try.

So there's no mods or anything? I have not the time skill or inclination to mod the files myself, could someone post theres with instructions on how to apply them so the AI just dosent build artillery please.

i mean cmon...

https://img160.imageshack.us/img160/908/sighqj2.jpg

LOL, and i thought being hit by 3 balistas, 6 catapults and 4 trebuchets of flaming deaths are bad...good thing you are allied with HRE

i must add that it seems to be a bit disturbing and funny when (guarding a bridge), AI HRE keep sending the vanguard units of catapults charging across the bridge, with or without infantry/cavalry support.

i did remembered that i suggested that artillery pieces (spares) can be use to block the bridge. i'll amend that suggestion to - "If AI has artillery units, wait for them to come to your side of the bridge so that you slaughter their crews, as AI has a grudge against its own artillery and would be more than happy to assist player to kill them off"

thankyou for all the helpful feedbacks on modifying the files. i will try it tonight.

I lowered catapults to 5. Still getting catapult blitzkreigs big time!

One of the posts above is kind of confusing. It seems to imply that raising a unit's recruit_priority_offset # should be set higher for it to produce less of them. Am I reading this right or should I continue to lower the number?? I'm well into a Welsh campaign and this is ruining it!

Thanks

From all I can gather, you should lower it (into negative). E.g., if you look at Teutonic ritterbruder units, they have the recruit offset of 90. I doubt that this means that they should never be recruited...

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Originally Posted by hrvojej

From all I can gather, you should lower it (into negative). E.g., if you look at Teutonic ritterbruder units, they have the recruit offset of 90. I doubt that this means that they should never be recruited...

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I think you're right Lol. Any more than 3 per stack and I'm going to negative numbers. I think R.C.'s idea about available slots should be a big help too.

I hate to beat a dead horse, and maybe this belongs in the Mod section... but I will. I'm so close!

Tried to mod the E_D_Building file to leave only one slot available for catapults, artillery, etc. as per RickooClan's suggestion above. I see that the numbers after "Recruit_Pool" for catapults are pretty much as follows-
1, 0.4, 3, 0.

I assumed that the "3" stands for three slots available, so I changed them all to 1. I'm still getting multiple catapult slots available in my campaign though, at least for my faction. I also notice that "recruitment_slots" only appears under castles where catapults/artillery aren't listed. When you reach the catapult area of the file there's no recruitment slots line.

If someone could help me out with this or point me to a thread that can, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

The AI produces so much siege equipment because it was not properly modified to cope with the separation of castles and cities (in Rome there were only cities). Modifying the descr_strat.txt, so that the AI's personality is either genghis or henry (mao or napoleon if it has good light infantry) will fix this problem.

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Originally Posted by Cid

I assumed that the "3" stands for three slots available, so I changed them all to 1.

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It's not recruitment slots as such, it's the maximum number that can exist in the pool at a given time. That is, if you don't recruit any catapults, the pool would fill up to 3, and then you would be able to recruit 3 of them at once if you wish. If you change it to 1, this means that you could recruit only one when pool is at max, but it doesn't affect how often that would happen. Lower the decimal number to decrease the frequency of how often the catapults become available. For example, if you lower it to 0.1, a new catapult will be available to recruit only every 10 turns.

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Originally Posted by Cid

I hate to beat a dead horse, and maybe this belongs in the Mod section... but I will. I'm so close!

Tried to mod the E_D_Building file to leave only one slot available for catapults, artillery, etc. as per RickooClan's suggestion above. I see that the numbers after "Recruit_Pool" for catapults are pretty much as follows-
1, 0.4, 3, 0.

I assumed that the "3" stands for three slots available, so I changed them all to 1. I'm still getting multiple catapult slots available in my campaign though, at least for my faction. I also notice that "recruitment_slots" only appears under castles where catapults/artillery aren't listed. When you reach the catapult area of the file there's no recruitment slots line.

If someone could help me out with this or point me to a thread that can, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

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Hi Cid, this is what i have done in the building file and see if this helps:

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recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { england, } and region_religion catholic 20
recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { barons_alliance, } and region_religion catholic 20
recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { scotland, } and region_religion scottish 20
recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { norway, } and region_religion norwegian 20
recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { Ireland, } and region_religion irish 20
recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { Wales, } and region_religion welsh 20

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But i have to remind that this is just part of the editing as you have to edit each level of siege building in both city and castle.

Also, you might have to edit the cannon making building in the same way as well. So there would be some copy and paste stuff to do! :sweatdrop:

But i think this worth it as it pretty much stop the AI from recruiting 50%+ artillery army in my game.

Thanks RC!

Just finished modding it (tedious as hell). Started a new Brit campaign. I'll let you know how it goes.

Last question! Lol--What do the numbers stand for, i.e. the ist 1, the 0.4 and the last zero?? For future reference.

Thanks again!

recruit_pool "NE Ballista" 1 0.25 1 0 requires factions { Wales, } and region_religion welsh 20

As far as i know the 0.25 here means the portion of the unit produce each turn, ie 0.25 means 4 turns to produce 1 unit.

then the 1 following is the maximum pool this unit.

I dont know what is the first 1 and last 0 stand for to be honest. :laugh4:

the first one is the number of that certain unit put into the pool immediately after you build the specific building. so if you put 6, then when you build the siege factory giving you trebuche's you will start with 6 of them in the pool. the last 0 is the amount of experience the building gives that unit up to 9 (3 gold chevrons).

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Originally Posted by Bravedude

the first one is the number of that certain unit put into the pool immediately after you build the specific building. so if you put 6, then when you build the siege factory giving you trebuche's you will start with 6 of them in the pool. the last 0 is the amount of experience the building gives that unit up to 9 (3 gold chevrons).

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Thanks,

I think that I'm going to have to read (and understand) the whole tutorial though. I make the changes but they don't appear in the game. Driving me nuts. "Run for the hills! It's a marauding army of catapults!"

just wait for them at the next side of the bridge.

the crazy AI catapult units will kamikaze across the bridge, and pushing their siege machines with them, and wait for your men to slaughter them when they are still pushing the machine.

my units of 4 peasants (originally intended as cannon-fodder for my general-leveling activities) blocked the bridge warm their hands nightly on the corpses of the catapult crews, the frame of the catapults and balistas, archers and some hapless militia that the crazy AI push across. nuts.

trebuchets has longer range, so you may have to bait the AI into coming across by pulling back your units.

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Originally Posted by imnothere

just wait for them at the next side of the bridge.

the crazy AI catapult units will kamikaze across the bridge, and pushing their siege machines with them, and wait for your men to slaughter them when they are still pushing the machine.

my units of 4 peasants (originally intended as cannon-fodder for my general-leveling activities) blocked the bridge warm their hands nightly on the corpses of the catapult crews, the frame of the catapults and balistas, archers and some hapless militia that the crazy AI push across. nuts.

trebuchets has longer range, so you may have to bait the AI into coming across by pulling back your units.

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I just want to figure out how to have the AI stop turning them out the way GM turns out mini vans!

I unpacked everything, changed the cost to 850, turns to make to 2 and the priority to -5 in the export_description_unit.txt file, but apparently that's not enough. The changes don't appear in the game. I read the tutorial about "bin.strings", etc. but I can't even figure out how to use the tool! I can read the text/bin files now, but they seem unrelated to anything I want to change. Just descriptions, etc.

What's CA thinking making it so hard to change something as simple as this? It's ruining the game for me! Anyone know of a tutorial on the tutorial??