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This pisses me off, is this a leftist provocation? If true what else can it be. Even the dead aren't safe in the state of self-denial? Isn't there some other lawn somewhere, why, exactly, there?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...icle_id=487017
This actually true?
It's the Daily Mail.
I'd put this in a wait-and-see before getting any outrage meters up.
They're being dug up all the time so the space can be used for other purposes. Whether it's so that some newer bodies can be buried (The Mail doesn't do outcries of "Bodies dug up to make way for Christian burial ground", for some reason), because they want to build some houses or a new supermarket there, or because they want to extend the road or rail system there. The fact that those bodies are being dug up is an everyday occurrence, and has been happening for centuries - it's the consequence of living in an densely populated city. The only difference is that the Mail is outraged that this is being done so so that Muslims can make use of that space - I doubt they'd make as much noise if the cadavers were being moved to make way for a luxury housing complex.
Wow a London cemetry that wasn't sold to developers for one pound . wonders never cease
Probably, but seems like they are fixing a problem that doesn't exist, most if not all dutch muslims want to be burried in their home-country's, I suspect it is the same in England. This has an air of multicultural pleasing-contest all over it. I know they can do it, but I just don't understand why they insist on having it there, seems like people will miss it. I highly doubt anyone asked for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
It's to be reused as a cemetery for all faiths, not just Muslims. There's only a corner of the cemetery that's going to be dedicated to the more conservative Muslims who follow strict requirements, not much different from dedicated corners for conservative Jews and devout people of other faiths who differ from the norm. The article speculates that it would likely be used mostly by Muslims because there's a large Muslim population nearby, but there's nothing in the description that backs this up. In short, it's trying to provoke outrage where there is cause for none - typical Daily Mail in other words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Big deal - a bunch of people who have long been dead and are no longer cared for will be moved to make way for dead people who are cared about.
I don't see what the fuss is about, ultimately in the end they're all fertiliser, whether they're Christian, Muslim or Jewish.
Willing to take your word for that, but it's the mentality that pisses me of, why must something be broken down to build something? Just build something new and keep what you got.
"To preserve the respect and dignity for everyone, I think most of the graves would have to be cleared out and we'd start afresh."
Well apparantly not, the city planner may not value it but historians and the people actually visiting it do, this is the sort of cultural relativism that tears country's apart. Can't shake the feeling that everything has to go because of the silly ideals of an elite that will never actually visit the place, just doing what is fahionable. But what you break down you can't actually rebuild, it is gone forever.
because if you that you´ll run out of space.......this isn´t some cemetery out in the countryside were there is lots of space and you can just keep expanding it....this is in the middle of London and space isn´t plentifully like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/templ...fm?newsid=8220
''There are no plans to re-open Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park as a cemetery. Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park is a popular and historic nature park and if there were any proposals to alter the look or the functionality of the Park, there would be a full consultation with interested parties.''
well it seems that a certain daily mail has jumped to conclusions... :inquisitive:
Even more reason to do it elsewhere, can't empty muslim and jewish graves because of their religion, will have to expand anyway. But I bet nobody asked for this in the first place, and that it is a pet project of some upperclass nitwit that is completily out of touch with sensitivities. Well some. It's a bloody waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Well Fragony, if you expand and expand and expand, you won't have a lot of nature left in the end, you can't just turn all the crop fields and forests outside cities into cemetaries or you're literally left with only cemetaries in the end.
It may be hard to imagine for some but a dead body is more or less a bunch of atoms or dirt, even the bible says so, so what's the big deal about dignity etc?
Also it seems like the Daily Mail overreacted anyway.
Seems like it. But it wasn't about dignity mind you (well also a bit but to a lesser extent, I understand the need to empty graves on modern cemetary's), but look at these graves they are centuries old, it's part of the cultural heritage and should be left alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
the irony is that this cemetary is a great example of finding an adtional use for our old cemetarys, useing it as a wildlife haven is a great idea.
indeed there is now the option to have a tree instead of a gravestone in some places another way that graveyards can serve more then one purpose
...isn't it a centuries-old practice in cities in particular to "reuse" cemetry land after enough time has passed, simply because space is somewhat scarce and the dead need to be put into the ground somewhere, anyway ? :inquisitive:
Well yeah but this one already serves another purpose, and it is just too old to destroy, would be a waste of so much cool stuff, of which I am a complete nut. Removing a 50 year old grave is no waste, a 150 year old is something entirely different. But as it turns out this is a non-issue, as you noticed I aproached this particular article with some caution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Granted, that's fairly cautious for you. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The nature-preserve issue is another thing, but what do you do ? Needs must, city grows, and the dead people still need to be buried somewhere.
And I may perhaps be excused if I work from the assumption it wasn't actually that you were worried about... :inquisitive:
Working from your assumption me being against putting muslims undergrounds wouldn't be very consistent now would it ~;)
It's like this, multicultist want to build something new and I want to preserve what they want to destroy to built something new. Simple as that, you have to stop them somewehre because multiculturalism is a religion like any other, and in religion's people happen to radicalise. It's not between immigrants and natives but between multicultists elites and people that have a sense of heritage and belonging. Newcommers are caught between them.
I don't think it's true, and browsing through Google I think it's a load of Bollox design to make the population think, "Those dirty ******* Muslims!".
Yup it was bollox and you are right, but that is logical consequence of multiculturalism. May not like it but it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
It's actually logical conclusion of racism and xenophobia, but don't let me rain on your parade...
It works both ways, but you are pretty eager in dismissing one of them. Can't change human nature. Homo sapiens non vrinat im vintum, you can find that on a house from 1560 in Amsterdam, 'a wise man doesn't piss against the wind'. Isn't diversity the one and only scource of every genocide in human history?Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
This particular graveyard was opened 1841 and closed 1966 and the legal system to reuse graves are 75 years. So unless you have a continious dig up of graves you'll end up with digging up some very old graves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Frag avoid te Mail , its philosophy is to give the idiots something they can hate on a daily basis while its current focus is on Islam(plus people on benefit , unmarried mothers...) it does tend to get around tohaving a pop at every non middle class english grouping that lives outside the environs of "concerned from Tunbridge Wells"
Sometimes I get the feeling Tribesman secretly has some hope for me ~;)
What more can you expect from the Daily Mail, the paper that up until September 1st 1939 considered Hitler to be a jolly good chap?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
Load of bigotted ***** in my opinion.
Not really; it's intolerance of diversity, which is a bit different thing and something civilized people these days are expected to learn out of because we're not a bunch of bloody illiterate savages who think the cow is infertile because a jealous neighbour looked at it funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Seeing as how it's nowadays regarded as a distinctly bad form to want to gut your neighbour and burn down his house just because he reads the Bible a bit differently (or more banally, competes with you in business), which was not the case in, say, the 1500s...
As I fondly recall from an old Clancy Brother's album...
Oh They're Moving Father's Grave to Build a Sewer.
They're moving father's grave to build a sewer
They're moving it regardless of expense.
They've dug up his remains to lay down nine-inch drains
To irrigate some posh bloke's residence.
Now what’s the use of havin’ a religion
If, when you’re dead, your troubles never cease.
If some posh city chapper—wants a pipeline to his …privie—
They’ll never let a british workman rest in peace.
Now father in his life was not a quitter
And I'm sure that he'll not be a quitter now.
And in his winding sheet, he will haunt that privy seat
And only let them go when he'll allow.
Now won't there be some bleedin' consternation,
And won't those city toffs begin to rave!
But it's no more than they deserve, 'cause they had the bleedin' nerve
To muck about a British workman's grave.
--these lyrics are found on http://www.songlyrics.com
Seemed appropriate.
wow, the way dead are disrespected like this is deplorable...
no more "rest in peace"???
Have you read any of this? Graveyards are reused all the time whether for new graves or not, especially in cities.
"Rest in peace" is a phrase to soothe the grieving, it means nothing to the dead.