Triumph, Imperator and Naked men

Hi All,
First of all, this version is great!!! I really love it.

I may lose my job (not really) cause I'm up all night playing (really). So Kudos to the EB for putting out this great mod.

Second, I just was curious if the Imperator bug(?) was fixed so that one can get a triumph now? I just wiped out all of Carthago, but no love from the Senate...please advise as to how to get the triumph so I can get one when I take out all the Hellenes.

Also, What is the deal with the Gesatae....its hard to believe that any naked dude, no matter how drugged up or tough could last too long against an armored foe, much less one on horse back.

Thanks again for your great work.

T

using the search function might help since If memory serves there was this huge big discussion about Gesatae's and their druggyness.

Triumph seems to work fine, you've got to face armies bigger then you though generally to get the next step up on the line to a Triumph.

Read the previous posts....drugged up or not a mortal wound is a mortal wound and you go down and you are much more likely to suffer a mortal woubd if you are naked...

Anyway, I guess it boils down to play-balancing....

Thanks for the response.

well yes some did get taken down on the first pila as seen when you give a volley, a few guys go down, but then you've got to take into consideration the big shields they carry, and the fact that if it hits them anywhere but a vital organ they're going to pull it out and keep on running at you.

Just because you receive a mortal wound doesn't mean you instantly die. There are countless instances in historical texts where a man has been mortally wounded and not died until after battle, or even weeks later (even Abraham Lincoln managed to languish for a while before finally dying). There are plenty of reasons why a soldier might not immediately fall to a mortal wound--adrenaline is the most common one, but psychodelics and painkillers are definitely up there when it comes to crazy barbarians. A wound that might send a normal man into shock will just antagonize somebody drugged up on war-drugs.

It's impossible to model the "lingering mortal wound" in the RTW engine, as far as I know, so it makes more sense for those crazy bastards to just stay alive after the battle instead of completely ignoring their ability not to succumb to injuries in the midst of battle that would debilitate a "sober" man.

Cheers.

For the Triumph -- is it consistently beating larger armies or is it that you once have to beat a bigger army? Also, does it matter if those larger armies are from a different faction since Carthago delenda est...

I can tell you stories even of soldiers losing limbs or other horrible injuries still doing heroic acts, etc, and thats just on a natural little drug called adrenaline.

The human body is incredible. If an attacker is determined enough, pain is irrelevant, and the only way to stop them immediately is by a devastating hit to their central nervous system (for instance, severing of the spinal cord or severe damage to the brain). Blood loss, or even severe damage to the heart will not necessarily stop them instantly. Severe wounds to anything other than the CNS would probably have no immediate effect on Gaesatae whatsoever. I have done quite a bit of research on this subject (more specifically, I have researched modern handgun bullet ballistics and the effects they have on the human body).

I have read an FBI report of a man who was shot 5 times in the chest with 230grain .45 caliber jacketed hollowpoint bullets, and not only was he *not* killed, but he did not even move. He remained standing and said 'those feel like bee stings'. Also, these type of wounds would be much more devastating compared to being impaled with pila (being hit with a bullet creates a 'temporary cavity' inside of you, which can crush tissue, as well as a smaller permanent cavity; penetration from a .45ACP bullet is generally over 12" as well). In 1986 a man named Michael Platt was shot 12 times before finally being incapacitated. He managed to kill 2 FBI agents even after he was shot repeatedly in the foot, leg, arm and chest. Toxicology reports show he had no drugs or alcohol in his system whatsoever.

So, based on what I know about the kind of damage the human body can take, I believe Gaesatae in EB are at least as strong as they were in real life.

Links to some of the stuff I mentioned:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/...4/oct04leb.htm (search "bee sting")

Indeed. I, personally, have shot a charging Taliban fighter twice in the torso with 5.56 AP, and he kept coming until about 10 meters later he realised he was dead and collapsed.

Works for critters other than humans too. There's apparently witness accounts of horses spiritedly trying to run even after a cannonball tore off one of their legs... and then there's always boars.

Anyway, the Gaesatae are not strictly speaking entirely naked; they wear one of those funky good-quality Celtic helmets with cheek-pieces and whatnot. Now, given that they have one of those tall Celtic infantry shields too, guess what part most opponents will find exposed from behind that big thing most of the time ? Yup, the head and the helmet.

Same thing as with the other units that basically wear just tunics or pants and a helmet. The other wear is virtually inconsequential if it's not actually armour; but even a simple "metal pot" helmet nets an unit some 4 points of armour by its lonesome, the better ones 5...

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Originally Posted by Blazing141

Read the previous posts....drugged up or not a mortal wound is a mortal wound and you go down and you are much more likely to suffer a mortal woubd if you are naked...

Anyway, I guess it boils down to play-balancing....

Thanks for the response.

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Well someone not hopped up on drugs would go down if say they get stabbed in the gut from the pain. If you don't feel the pain then you'll keep fighting until your really physically unable to continue

So, based on what I know about the kind of damage the human body can take, I believe Gaesatae in EB are at least as strong as they were in real life.



Ok, pretty neat. And I guess its true anecdotally (i.e. there is one or a few guys who can take a lot of punishment), but for them to be able to field huge companies of these guys 30 at a time is a little hard to swallow.

But I guess the EB team's view is that these guys are appropriately powered. So be it. Back to kicking their asses with my Roman Legions...

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Originally Posted by johhny-turbo

Well someone not hopped up on drugs would go down if say they get stabbed in the gut from the pain. If you don't feel the pain then you'll keep fighting until your really physically unable to continue

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Please see my post regarding Michael Platt. Or just Google his name. I am sorry, but your statement couldn't be farther from the truth.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

Indeed. I, personally, have shot a charging Taliban fighter twice in the torso with 5.56 AP, and he kept coming until about 10 meters later he realised he was dead and collapsed.

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I am glad you made it out of there OK. Sometimes they still have time to fire off a few shots even after being hit in the heart with a 5.56. If I had to goto war I think I would prefer an M-14 myself, but you don't always have things your way.

screw that, an M-4 is much easier to carry around and will still get the job done. No one likes to lug a musket.

I think that the cases of pcp addicts and their persistance in violent acts regardless of physical injury should prove the point

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Indeed. I, personally, have shot a charging Taliban fighter twice in the torso with 5.56 AP, and he kept coming until about 10 meters later he realised he was dead and collapsed.

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I'll pray for you, dude...

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Originally Posted by Methuselah

I'll pray for you, dude...

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lol.

now i have one more question on gaestatae(sp) is there anyway we can take down their mass? cause i dont care how hopped up on drugs you are or how hardy you might be, when a unit of heavy cavalry comes at you full charge from the back i think we should be seeing much more devestation on these totally naked men(from the back where hte charge is coming from) i haven't gotten to try this with 1.0 as i cant get MP to work but in .81 i know a heavy cav into their backs did little and i was rather pissed at my heavy cavalry lol

Lower their mass value in the edu possibly?

i know i can do this but i was wondering if it was supposed to be or if it was an error

Probably better to rasie the mout mass, I know when we were doing our eb 0.81 edu for mp, mAIOR and I agreed to raise the mount mass, as it was too low, ask him for more details, my copy got fried along with the rest of my computer.:no:

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Originally Posted by madmatg

now i have one more question on gaestatae(sp) is there anyway we can take down their mass? cause i dont care how hopped up on drugs you are or how hardy you might be, when a unit of heavy cavalry comes at you full charge from the back i think we should be seeing much more devestation on these totally naked men(from the back where hte charge is coming from) i haven't gotten to try this with 1.0 as i cant get MP to work but in .81 i know a heavy cav into their backs did little and i was rather pissed at my heavy cavalry lol

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mad I'll tell you what ur problem was in that fight... you were charging with EXAUSTED CATAPHARTCS (sp) AT A SHORT DISTANCE!!! LOL

Of corse they won't get any charge value man.... HOWEVER, when you and Gaius did it to me with Hetaroi, Prodromoi, etc they DID kill at least 8 Gaesatae.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafien

Indeed. I, personally, have shot a charging Taliban fighter twice in the torso with 5.56 AP, and he kept coming until about 10 meters later he realised he was dead and collapsed.

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ZAK you da man!!! :2thumbsup:

I know ur making the Romani proud!

naw man that seems to happen to me constantly not just against you but when i was fighting in europe as the KH with my thessalonians(granted not the best heavy cav but still good)

Mad.... my Gaesatae were charged in back by prodromoi in of the battles and thier numbers dropped by 10. In another they charged in the front by 2 cavarly proromoi and the Epirote fake Hetaroi (sp), they numbers dropped by 15 or more.

you gatta make sure u get a charge going, and with cataphracts it takes even longer. Watch the replays.... well.... do an Costum Battle, the replays were "Gone with the Wind... I mean, .81v" :no:

i gotcha i'll have to take a look

Has anyone won a trimuph in 1.0 yet?:inquisitive:

I recall reading somewhere, someone saying they had gotten one.

i had plenty, more than 5 in my campiagn. the imperator trait is working beautifully. thanks eb