I fight a battle as aedui with carthago and they have spartan hoplites in army?? Where they can get them?? Are spartans recruitable as mercenaries in some regions???
Printable View
I fight a battle as aedui with carthago and they have spartan hoplites in army?? Where they can get them?? Are spartans recruitable as mercenaries in some regions???
Presumably that was the scripted arrival of Xanthippos the Spartan mercenary.
And are you sure or its just your opinion???
Thanx
Xanthippos has Spartan bodyguards. No other faction besides KH can recruit spartans otherwise.
The logical conclusion is that those were X's bodyguards...
Presumably=not sure.
No, they're not available as mercs.
I'm interested in the tale of Spartans come and teach Cartharge in new hoplite warfares, and it's mentioned alot around aguy name Xanthippos and the Hannibal's campaign.
Any1 can enlighten me about this interesting tale please :2thumbsup:
Eh, by what I know of it he just improved drill and discipline which had been slacking a bit and were duly causing problems against the Romans. I understand the Carthies were as such fully learned in hoplite techniques from their turf wars with Syracuse and other Greek colonies already.
It said in his 0.8 bibograohy, that he initiated a new battle field formation, can't remeber the details.
When does he turn up?
Xanthippus' major innovation was realizing mistake former Carthaginian generals had made by avoiding open ground for fear of the superior Roman infantry, thus restricting the Carthaginian cavalry and elephants (the strongest parts of their armies). As a result, he met the Roman Consul Regulus on open ground in the battle of Tunis in 255 BC. In Carthage’s only major land victory of the First Punic War, Xanthippus won, and Regulus himself was taken prisoner. This battle also stands out amongst all others fought by Carthage because the majority of the army consisted not of mercenaries, but of citizens (in a hastily raised phalanx in the center). However, they didn't actually have to do too much. The credit should go to the Carthaginian cavalry, elephants, and commander, whose brilliant strategic choice of ground allowed the latter most prominent elements of the Carthaginian army to live up to their full potential.
Read Polybius, 1.32 - 1.35:
And for shameless advertising, I actually created the Battle of Tunis for EB (click on link).Quote:
32 Just about this time there arrived at Carthage one of the recruiting-officers they had formerly dispatched to Greece, bringing a considerable number of soldiers and among them a certain Xanthippus of Lacedaemon, a man who had been p91brought up in the Spartan discipline, and had had a fair amount of military experience. 2 On hearing of the recent reverse and how and in what way it occurred, and on taking a comprehensive view of the remaining resources of the Carthaginians and their strength in cavalry and elephants, he at once reached the conclusion and communicated it to friends that the Carthaginians owed their defeat not to the Romans but to themselves, through the inexperience of their generals. 3 Owing to the critical situation Xanthippus's remarks soon got abroad and reached the ears of the generals, whereupon the government decided to summon him before them and examine him. 4 He presented himself before them and communicated to them his estimate of the situation, pointing out why they were now being worsted, and urging that if they would take his advice and avail themselves of the level country for marching, encamping and offering battle they could easily not only secure their own safety, but defeat the enemy. 5 The generals, accepting what he said and resolving to follow his advice, at once entrusted their forces to him. 6 Now even when the original utterance of Xanthippus got abroad, it had caused considerable rumour and more or less sanguine talk among the populace, 7 but on his leading the army out and drawing it up in good order before the city and even beginning to manoeuvre some portions of it correctly and give the word of command in the orthodox military terms, the contrast to the incompetency of the former generals was so striking that the soldiery expressed their approval by cheers and were eager to engage the enemy, feeling sure that if Xanthippus was in command no disaster could p93befall them. 8 Upon this the generals, seeing the extraordinary recovery of courage among the troops, addressed them in words suitable to the occasion and after a few days took the field with their forces. 9 These consisted of twelve thousand foot, four thousand horse and very nearly a hundred elephants.
33 When the Romans saw that the Carthaginians were marching through the flat country and pitching their camps on level ground, they were surprised indeed and somewhat disturbed by this in particular, but yet were anxious on the whole to get into contact with the enemy. 2 On coming into touch they encamped on the first day at a distance of about •ten stades from him. 3 On the following day the Carthaginian government held a council to discuss what should be done for the present and the means thereto. 4 But the troops, eager as they were for a battle, collecting in groups and calling on Xanthippus by name, clearly indicated their opinion that he should lead them forward at once. 5 The generals when they saw the enthusiasm and keenness of the soldiers, Xanthippus at the same time imploring them not to let the opportunity slip, ordered the troops to get ready and gave Xanthippus authority to conduct operations as he himself thought most advantageous. 6 Acting on this authority, he sent the elephants forward and drew them up in a single line in front of the whole force, placing the Carthaginian phalanx at a suitable distance behind them. 7 Some of the mercenaries he stationed on the right wing, while the most active he placed together with the cavalry in front of both wings. 8 The Romans, seeing p95the enemy drawn up to offer battle, issued forth to meet them with alacrity. 9 Alarmed at the prospect of the elephants' charge, they stationed the velites in the van and behind them the legions many maniples deep, dividing the cavalry between the two wings. 10 In thus making their whole line shorter and deeper than before they had been correct enough in so far as concerned the coming encounter with the elephants, but as to that with the cavalry, which largely outnumbered theirs, they were very wide of the mark. 11 When both sides had made that general and detailed disposition of their forces that best suited their plan, they remained drawn up in order, each awaiting a favourable opportunity to attack. 34 No sooner had Xanthippus ordered the elephant-drivers to advance and break the enemy's line and the cavalry on each wing to execute a turning movement and charge, 2 than the Roman army, clashing their shields and spears together, as is their custom and uttering their battle-cry, advanced against the foe. 3 As for the Roman cavalry on both wings it was speedily put to flight owing to the superior numbers of the Carthaginians; 4 while of the infantry, the left wing, partly to avoid the onset of the elephants, and partly owing to the contempt they felt for the mercenary force, fell upon the Carthaginian right wing, and having broken it, pressed on and pursued it as far as the camp. 5 But the first ranks of those who were stationed opposite the elephants, pushed back when they encountered them and trodden under foot by the strength of the animals, fell in heaps in the mêlée, while the formation of the p97main body, owing to the depths of the ranks behind, remained for a time unbroken. 6 At length, however, those in the rear were surrounded on all sides by the cavalry and obliged to face round and fight them, while those who had managed to force a passage through the elephants and collect in the rear of those beasts, encountered the Carthaginian phalanx quite fresh and in good order 7 and were cut to pieces. Henceforth the Romans were in sore straits on all sides, the greater number were trampled to death by the vast weight of the elephants, while the remainder were shot down by the numerous cavalry in their ranks as they stood. Only quite a small body of these tried to effect their escape, 8 and of these, as their line of retreat was over level ground, some were dispatched by the elephants and cavalry, and about five hundred who got away with their general Regulus shortly afterwards fell into the enemy's hands and were made prisoners, himself included. 9 It resulted that in this battle the Carthaginians lost about eight hundred of the mercenaries, who had faced the Roman left wing, while of the Romans there were saved but about two thousand, whom the pursuit of the mercenaries I mentioned above carried out of the main battle. 10 All the rest perished with the exception of the general Regulus and those who took to flight together with him. 11 The maniples which escaped got through by extraordinary luck to Aspis. 12 The Carthaginians stripped the dead, and taking with them the Consul and the other captives, returned to the city in high glee at the turn of affairs.
35 In these events there will be found by one who notes them aright much to contribute to p99the better conduct of human life. 2 For the precept to distrust Fortune, and especially when we are enjoying success, was most clearly enforced on all by Regulus's misfortunes. 3 He who so short a time previously had refused to pity or take mercy on those in distress was now, almost immediately afterwards, being led captive to implore pity and mercy in order to save his own life. 4 And again Euripides' words, so long recognized as just, that "one wise counsel conquers many hands" were then confirmed by the actual facts. 5 For one man and one brain laid low that host which seemed so invincible and efficient, and restored the fortunes of a state which in the eyes of all was utterly fallen and the deadened spirit of its soldiers. 6 This I mention for the sake of the improvement of the readers of this history. 7 For there are two ways by which all men can reform themselves, the one through their own mischances, the other through those of others, and of these the former is the more impressive, but the latter less hurtful. 8 Therefore we should never choose the first method if we can help it, as it corrects by means of great pain and peril, but ever pursue the other, since by it we can discern what is best without suffering hurt. 9 Reflecting on this we should regard as the best discipline for actual life the experience that accrues from serious history; 10 for this alone makes us, without inflicting any harm on us, the most competent judges of what is best at every time and in every circumstance. Well, on this subject I have said enough.
36 All having now fallen out with the Carthaginians as they could best desire, there was no extravagance of rejoicing in which they did not p101indulge, paying thank-offerings to the gods and giving congratulatory entertainments. 2 But Xanthippus, to whom this revolution and notable advance in the fortunes of Carthageº was due, after a little time sailed again for home, and this was a very prudent and sensible decision on his part; for brilliant and exceptional achievements are wont to breed the deepest jealousy and most bitter slander. Natives of a place, supported as they are by their kinsmen and having many friends, may possibly be able to hold their own against those for some time, 3 but foreigners when exposed to either speedily succumb and find themselves in peril. 4 There is another account given of Xanthippus's departure which I will endeavour to set forth on an occasion more suitable than the present.
This is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoom
Cool. I didn't know EB had script that inserted historical people into the game. Are there any others like Xanthippus?
I always thought the EB team had said that they would never add in historical characters after the game starts with the script.
Xanthippos is a special case. He is alive at the start of the game, and in fact he used to be a Qarthadastim family member. We have removed him as a FM and now allow him to be hired him under certain circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admetos
Ah, thanks for the clarification Atilius. :2thumbsup: