Pontos: Utterly Ridiculous. Advice?

I've decided to see what Pontos plays like, since I've seen a number of people here trumpeting them. I rapidly discovered, however, that Pontos' starting situation is, as the campaign menu warns, "Nigh-Impossible". Despite managing to seize Sinope, Trebizond, Nicaea, and Byzantion, and disbanding nearly my entire army (as much as I could get away with without rioting cities), I'm still losing money hand over fist, mired in the vicious cycle of crippling debt and inability to improve settlements to make money. Pontos' lands are debilitatingly poor, and the wages of my generals alone manage to outstrip any meager income I might be able to cobble together while trying to stall the Arche Seleukeia.

So, any advice on how to get Pontos off the ground? For myself, I am utterly at a loss. Alternatively, should I just give up on them and take a look at Baktria?

Cheers.

Edit: As a matter of fact, I did read the "Between the Sea and the Grey Death" thread in the Guides & AARs subforum, but it does not at all address the dismal financial situation.

well my friend i was lucky on my pontos campaign but i hope this can help you out a little bit, i guess the best strategy for pontos is blitzkrieg, try to charge to the neighboring towns sinope, mazaka, you know try to get all of central asia for your self and yes this means war with the seleukids and ptolemaioi its inevitable, after you get most of the towns, to be honest i think its better if you don't get byzantion or any other town that might get you close to eastern europe you know to avoid any conflict with the makedonians or the koinon hellenon, anyways try get your border from mazaka to hallicarnasus and hold on try to form a small corp with your family members they can kick serious ass, just try to hold on and wait until you can build the mines available in most of the central asia towns and well after that youre a steam machine ready to take on the seleukids and the ptolemaioi, remember secure your borders, don't trust either the ptolies or the seleukids, they will betray you sooner or later(i will say sooner hahaha)well i hope this can help you out my friend it helped me!any suggestion from anyone else can be gladly accepted, thanks!

regards
saludos desde mexico

i always take sinope and ancyra on the first and second/third turns respectively. i ignore mazaka until the As decides to inform that we are now neutral instead of allies, which i take as carte blanche to slaughter their poorly defended towns (ipsos, mazaka are usually very badly garrisoned). it hasnt failed me yet, AS always gets wary and backs off for a little while if i take galatia so quickly.after allying with the ptolemies and breaking alliance with the AS league, AS then gets into a losing war with me after i storm two out of there 3 settlements, i take the 3rd then they are forced to accept a ceasefire. then i try to get on good terms with the AS and declare war against the stupid egyptians and their 2 settlements.

also slow your progress and give some of the reb towns in the rich areas to the west some time to build mines for you....it will kick you off fast. in one game, byzantion had already built mines for me, and in another game, pergamon already had a mining center (!) and one of those expensive dock upgrades already done (!!!!). you can imagine how pleasant of a surprise that was.

Use galatian reserves extensively once you can get down a type 4 government + regional level 1 mic in ancyra, they are surprisingly effective with 2 bronze chevrons against the inferior eastern/imitation greek type troops that occupy asia minor.

I posted a brief guide about it in the gameguide forum. It's not too hard once you know how to proceed...though it won't get anything approaching easy for a good long while.

I think I've figured out where I went wrong--Allied Governments. I had established Type IV governments in all of my new holdings (Sinope, Nikaia, Byzantion, Trebizond), and I didn't realize (1) That they cost money, and (2) That they cost quite a lot of money. I'll probably start the campaign over (maybe not immediately--I might give Baktria a whirl first) and stick with installing non-client governments, and see if that helps things along any.

Nevertheless, further tips on Pontos are always welcome.

Cheers.

Grab as many cities with your starting army, disband it, hope not to get attacked while you get out of debt and build up mines ASAP.

After you get some mines up and running things get easier.

I made the same error. I fixed it by taking that city East of the Getei(sp?) and walking over Seleucid lands to take Ptolemy holdings. I was spread sickeningly thin but I managed to pull it off. Getei never attacked, Macedon was too busy to bother me and I made peace with the Ptolemy since I didn't share a boarder with them.

Remember also, for some quick cash (in order of ease of conquest):

1. Sack the temple of Artemis at Ephesus (within Sardis' province)
2. Sack the Colossus of Rhodes (need a navy)
3. Sack the Mausoleion at Halikarnassos
4. Sack Troy (with Pergamon's province)

Get to Pergamon. It allready has mines (at least in EB 0.8) from the start.

Dont sack (as in dont destroy buildings except if they are of a different ethics) but enslave instead, it will heal your economic for a bit but it will bring some more unrest so dont disband your army.

Well, I'm not that hardcore to play with VH/x, I stay with M/E (the last one due to my low end comp).

I remember when first playing with Pontos (0.81v2) that a Ptolemaii diplomat turned up after a few couples of turns and I managed to get both Kilikia and Pamphylia (can't remember the city's names). The AS betrayed me shortly after this, but luckily I had managed to get Sinope, Ani-Kamah, Nikaia and Trebezount, giving me some income.

The coastal cities with their harbours proved very valuable and my single diplomat was busy signing tade agreements with everyone in Europe and, also, ended the war with KH.

I took the three AS cities in Asia Minor ASAP, and made up a defence against "The Grey Death", trying to consilidate and improving my harbours / building roads. Them AS kept sending troops after troops, which I could defy (using a lot of slingers and what of the starting Hellenic Native Phalanxes was left as cores of my army).

After sacking Antiochia, things got a lot easier and I was able to build a second army. The first, more experienced one still acted as mobile defence force, while the new one went on an "raid tour" through AS lands, sacking and pillaging as many as possible cities. Hit and run. Did not keep them, but they provided me the money I needed. Finally, the army and the brave family member (dull/uncharismatic/langourous//unselfish/??/loyal with some ugly start traits) fell. I remember he was one of the "worst" characters I've seen, but man, he did a great job and I hope they had erected a statue in his honour back in Amazeia.

I could rise a new second army and started taking city after city from the AS, very slowly, using a lot of spies as "radars". And I was able to build my first mines (silly me didn't know all about mines at that time, I made money via trade). Chersonesos and the second city on the Krim were taken shortly after, further improving my trade.

At the time I was very slowly conquering the old Persian lands, I had a Virus attack and unfortunately had to use the "Recovery"-CD.

Yours,
Treverer

P.S. I've never had such a good go with Pontos again so I'd guess it was Beginner's luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Landwalker

I think I've figured out where I went wrong--Allied Governments. I had established Type IV governments in all of my new holdings (Sinope, Nikaia, Byzantion, Trebizond), and I didn't realize (1) That they cost money, and (2) That they cost quite a lot of money. I'll probably start the campaign over (maybe not immediately--I might give Baktria a whirl first) and stick with installing non-client governments, and see if that helps things along any.

Nevertheless, further tips on Pontos are always welcome.

Cheers.

---

Type 3s will suffice in every region but ancyra, you will want to keep the type 4 there....but it is a major trade zone and good mining area, so it will easily earn back its losses. ancyra is pretty much the major center (in all senses of the word) of my empire in asia minor.

Treverer, cool that you had a guy defy all his natural lack of abilities and come out on top after all! That is, until he perished of course. I think I'll have to try that some time, drive a really poor guy to be a hero :beam:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bovi

Treverer, cool that you had a guy defy all his natural lack of abilities and come out on top after all! That is, until he perished of course. I think I'll have to try that some time, drive a really poor guy to be a hero :beam:

---

Thank you for your kind words, Bovi.

I remember using this guy as kinda "light" cavalry, finishing off the fleeing enemies. The ones my slingers had hit really bad and then routing after fighting against the "Hellenic Native Phalanxes".

God, what a game that was. And :wall: :wall: :wall: to that Virus attack.

Yours,
Treverer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Landwalker

I think I've figured out where I went wrong--Allied Governments. I had established Type IV governments in all of my new holdings (Sinope, Nikaia, Byzantion, Trebizond), and I didn't realize (1) That they cost money, and (2) That they cost quite a lot of money. I'll probably start the campaign over (maybe not immediately--I might give Baktria a whirl first) and stick with installing non-client governments, and see if that helps things along any.

Nevertheless, further tips on Pontos are always welcome.

Cheers.

---

You shouldn't install Type IV's lightly in your initial Empire days: you will want to keep as tight as possible control over the money-flows through your dominions. Local figureheads which feel they deserve a piece of the cake & a nice mansion do not fit well within such an economy policy. ~;)

I suggest you go for Type3 (after all that is the economy based government for the poor nations & "barbarian" (as in quisque est barbarus aliquo) dominions). Then you may want to consider building fortifications on every choke point but one; so any AS agression will be channeled through the one un-fortified position. That is then where you'll be concentrating your forces.

Also it is a wise descision to get trade rights & sell map info wherever you go.

i almost always get money from KH and Ptolies for a ceasefire/alliance. i remember on one occasion got 10k. address KH after Sinope and Trapezund are yours. in most cases they are more than happy to end hostilities. Ptolies can fill your pockets with gold too since there is a common enemy nearby.
and those client rulers are a big time rip off. after i discovered the upkeep of almost $1000 i had to make sure mine is killed in the battle asap:laugh4: and dont ally with Sarmatians it might turn Armenians on you and you dont want that with the prospect of facing AS and possibly Ptolies, all and the same time.

Heh. It's a fun faction, but like you say, it's damned frustrating. One way of playing it is to just disband your armies from the beginning, work up your economy with your single town, build, build, and build some more. And eventually (I'm talking.. 230 BC) you'll be poised to start expanding readily and consistantly. I tried doing this originally, and though it worked fine from an RP perspective (e.g. not stabbing Galatia in the back, or getting into a worrying conflict with KH), and made a little more historic sense than just invading everybody nilly-willy, it didn't half get boring. So I've packed it up and started again. This time around I've simply gone on to take Byzantion and Nikaia. Alas, I'm still deeply in debt, some ten turns after seizing those towns. It all just adds to the experience, though. I mean, Pontos couldn't realistically have expanded all over the bloody place, could they? It's very much a faction for patience and micro-management.

I've played H & H Pontos campaign. At the year of 236 BC forced to quit it.

My empire has:

Amaseia, Sinope, Mazaka, Side, Ipsos, Halikarnassos, Tarsos, Pergamon at Anatolia

Antiocheia, Hierosolyma, Sidon, Bostra at Levant

Alexandreia, Memphis, Paraitonion at Egypt


Pontos suffers from weak unit roster at early and medium stages. You must rely on your Pantodapoi Phalanx when AS and Ptolemaoi march upon you with Medium Phalanxes, Celtic Swordsmens, Agemas and even Basilikons!

You can get Medium Phalanx from Lydia and Phyrigia but at 4th degree of regional MIC's. Despite your rivals can get them at 3rd degree! This makes your armies relatively weak against your opponents.

Hayasdan, Pahlava and Baktria has no effect on AS giant. It sets the AS free and they freely focus on you. There is no single threat for AS but infact must be something.

Ptolemaoi makes alliance with Carthage and directly pushes his armies on you. Saba is so weak to challenge against AS and Ptolemaoi. They attack you at very early stages and they force you to aim on their expansion to stop. If you do that you cannot focus on rebel provinces on Anatolia such as Ankyra and Bithynia or eastern ones and keep fighting against them. If you do not they crush you while sending stacks of armies. Choice is yours but way is hard.

Despite Pontos' disadvanteges i did a succesful campaign and shaked the Ptolemaoi's pillars and able to hold the hordes of AS. I've captured most beneficial cities of Ptolemaoi... Whole seashore of Levant and Egypt but they never give up and constantly keep sending armies. AS comes with huge stacks and

finaly Saba and Hayasdan declared war upon me!

AS, Ptolemaoi, Hayasdan and Saba...

Ptolemaoi after countless disasters and defeats are still able to build quality armies formed by Hetairoi, Medium Phalanx and Celtic formula... Finally they captured Alexandria and set siege at Hierosolyma.

How do they do that? I mean how can they send armies while i was capturing their huge cities even capitals? Where do they find so much money?

AS sent two full stack armies but defeated and rejected ceasefire.

Hayasdan came to Amaseia with her King and defeated my last hardly gathered army at the gates of the city.

Saba attacked Bostra and captured the city.

Uh dear god!

Pontos made me sick at last. I think eastern part of EB revisited at balance manner. There must be something to hold AS and Ptolemies a bit of time. Pontos, Hay and Pahlava seems passive factions to deal with them.

Well, it's certainly good to know that this won't be one of those factions that, once you get it off the ground, just coasts all the way to the finish line. :yes:

Now that I've solved the problem of the Mysterious Treasury-Devouring Client Rulers, I've been able to make get a decent campaign going. Unfortunately I was set back at least twenty turns due to my humiliating defeat by the garrison of Ankyra, which decimated my armies and left me licking my wounds until I had climbed out of debt (and, now that I have, until I manage to get my cities' populations up high enough to be able to recruit an army without completely depopulating them). The kingdom is nothing special at the moment--Amaseia, Sinope, Nikaia, and Byzantion in 256 BC--but it is, at least, stable, and on the verge of finally breaking out. The Arche Seleukeia is, thankfully, still at peace with me, and hopefully will stay that way until I'm able to pose an actual threat. ~;)

Cheers.