This thread documents the battle for the Flemish crossroads.
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This thread documents the battle for the Flemish crossroads.
Originally posted by TinCow
The Battle of the Flemish Crossroads - 1326 AD
Athalwolf von Salza ordered his army to prepare to move north to Bruges. His plan was to aid the Danish in capturing Wolfgang Hummel’s capital, and then ambush the rebel Swabian as he rode east to re-take the city. However, riders from the south informed the Count that reinforcements were being sent north for him from Duke Hans. Within a few weeks, three regiments of Armoured Spearmen arrived in Rheims, bearing greetings from the Duke and a request. Duke Hans had sent 5 wealth with the men at the request that it be used to hire engineers and a pair of Grand Bombards. It took a few days for the arrangements to be completed, ensuring that the money would be spent properly and the artillery dispatched to Duke Hans when they were ready. Altogether, this delayed Athalwolf’s departure by several weeks.
At the same time, news of the Danish siege of Bruges had reached Wolfgang Hummel outside of Caen. He immediately readied his army to march, not willing to lose his Capital and the loyal citizens within. He took with him the professional soldiers garrisoning Caen and left some of the more poorly trained Flemish volunteers behind in their place. As soon as he neared the border, he put out a call to all Flemish men with military experience. Two full regiments worth of men met him along the road as he marched and pledged to serve him. Wolfgang used 4 wealth to have them outfitted in the proper manner of Flemish Pikemen.
The swift march of Wolfgang’s army, and the slow start of Athalwolf’s force, resulted in an unintended meeting engagement at the crossroads south of Bruges. The scouts of the two armies stumbled into each other slightly southwest of the actual intersection. Both groups refused engagement and retreated quickly to their respective generals to report on this most unexpected encounter. Athalwolf and Wolfgang both assumed that the other had prepared an ambush for them along the road, and quickly assembled their columns into battle formation. By the time they realized that it was an mutually unintended encounter, the defensive deployments had been completed and there was no way to disengage from the battle without risking great loss in a retreat.
The Setup:
Since both players previously used a ‘table-top’ style battle instead of multiplayer, I am assuming you will do so once again. If you both would prefer to fight it out in online multiplayer, please let me know.
The terrain of the battlefield will be determined by econ21, who will also manage the battle as he has done before. Both sides will be limited to a defense-oriented formation in the deployment phase, to mimic the events I described above. This will be a full-scale battle for control of Northern Swabia. If either player attempts to disengage at any time, they will lose a significant portion of their army and may even be captured. One way or another, the conflict between Athalwolf von Salza and Wolfgang Hummel is going to be decided here, on this field.
The Army of Athalwolf von Salza:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The Army of Wolfgang Hummel:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The battle of the Flemish Crossroads
This thread is to resolve the player vs player battle of the Flemish Crossroads between Hummel and von Salva. Changes from the battle of Normandy rules will be marked in bold.
It will be played out in a similar, but simplified, style to that used in the Will of the Senate PBM Civil War. There are two examples:
Battle for Rome:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=75664
Battle for Ancrya
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74303
How the battle will be played:
1. I will umpire the battle. Ignoramus will control Wolfgang Hummel and his the Army of the Prinz; Warluster will control Athalwolf von Salza and his Swabian Defence Force. No other players should advise them or communicate with them during the battle.
2. I have cut and paste all the icons of the units onto a word document.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/...crossroads.zip
3. The terrain is that visible in the Death Track custom battle map for M2TW. I have sketched a simplified representation in deathtrack.jpg included in the zip.
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/...thtracktc1.jpg
Basically, the battlefield is divided in two by a sunken road that forks at the western side of the map. Hummel will deploy on the north, von Salza on the south. On the western side of the map, the area becomes lightly wooded, with small hills either side of the sunken road. Units deep in the woods or hidden behind the small hills, can be masked from view - but there are fewer possibilities for concealment than in the Normandy battle.
4. The battle will have five phases.
(i) deployment
(ii) morning
(iii) early afternoon
(iv) mid-afternoon
(v) late afternoon
If the battle is inconclusive, there may be evening, night and even second day phases.
At the start of each turn, each player will use Paint to mark his planned maneouvres and send me any accompanying in character orders.
5. Phase I: deployment. Both players should download the flemish_crossroads.zip. They should copy each unit icon from the word file and paste it onto the deathtrack.jpg to indicate where they wish it to deploy. They should then upload the modified jpg and PM a link to me. They may send accompanying notes, but do not need to submit any orders at this stage.
When I have the deployment orders, I will inform both players what they can see and then they can begin to give orders in phase II: the morning. There will be no movement nor combat during the deployment phase.
6. Players should act like historical army commanders and not try to micro-manage too much. Orders may get lost and things may slip up. The position of the general will be particularly important in determining the outcome of any fine maneouvring - if he is far away or locked in combat, he may not be able to control events. (Best avoid the bad habit of using your general as a spearhead.)
7. I will put the orders together. Execution of movement will be simultaneous, so I will work out the result of any clashes arising based on my judgement - informed by common sense, unit stats, history and experience of M2tW. I will upload an end-turn file showing the state of play together with a brief gamesmaster narrative.
Further notes:
Depict the facing of your units by drawing a coloured line for the front side of each unit icon. Units may be able to change their facing autonomously so if you want a flank attack, make sure you pin the enemy first. Units next to a general may be able to do even more in reaction to an enemy move so make sure you place your general where he needs to be to control things.
Please don't ask me to align unit x to fight unit y - I don't think a real medieval general would get into such a level of micromanagement (unless he was adjacent to unit x). Orders should be given at a formation level.
On the realism of fog of war - a general can only see through line of sight. He does not have a helicopter or interactive total war style map laid out. Once the lines have met in combat, I doubt he could see much - particularly on level ground. He would have to use riders to keep in touch with his divisons, but riders can be lost, reports garbled and orders can be misunderstood (think Balaclava).
Divisional structure and giving orders
To simplify this, please give orders only to groups (“division”) of your army. You may have a maximum of 6 “divisions” in your army.
I have currently assigned units to division based on function (a cavalry division, an archer division etc). You may regroup your units into different divisions before the battle. If you do, please upload a zipped word file with the new groupings. You may also regroup units into new formations during the battle, but there is a risk this will cause disorganisation and unit paralysis.
Please draft your orders in character, as if given by a real general. They should be clear and simple. The more confused or complicated, the more likely the divisional commander will mess up. Ideally, I would like to publish these orders in a battle report (after the battle is concluded – so they will be confidential until then).
You should allow for some contingencies, but if the orders are too complex, the divisional commander may become confused or feel constrained from acting on his own initiative. You can trust your divisional commanders to execute their orders in a competent way (you don’t need to micromanage them and tell them how to fight – I may let the AI control them to see how a division vs division fight would play out). But they will have limited initiative to respond to new developments.
What orders should cover:
- where to move, inc. facing
- which formation to engage or screen (this will help me determine facing)
- for missiles: whether to fire at will or who to target
- for melee units: whether to charge or prepare to receive a charge
- whether to pursue or hold ground once in place
- issues of sequencing (e.g. do you soften up the enemy with missiles before charging? do you wait till the enemy are committed before executing a flank charge etc)
DEADLINE for orders for Turn 1: 24 hours hence.
If you can get orders to me faster, so much the better. I will always allow 24 hour intervals between orders, but if I get both sets of orders sooner, I will move on sooner. If I get no orders within 24 hours, your units will be on autopilot - typically not moving except defensively. If real life issues mean that you cannot make a 24 hour deadline - e.g. if you are out of touch over the weekend - please PM me in advance and I will arrange an extension.
Battle of Flemish crossroads
Deployment Orders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
Note: Von Salza did not deploy his DFK => put it in reserve, next to HQ.
He also broke up his divisions => requesting he form new ones.
Feedback after deployment phase
Feedback to Hummel
Your army deploys as ordered. This is what you can make out of the situation at the start of the battle:
https://img250.imageshack.us/img250/...acki0sasi6.jpg
You cannot spot the turncoat regiment of armoured sergeants.
Please give orders for each division for the first movement phase (morning). Regiments will be able to march to the enemy line and enter combat. However, infantry vs infantry combats will not be resolved this phase (crossing the battlefield takes so long, there is less time for melee). Cavalry combats will be resolved.
Feedback to von Salza
Your army deploys as ordered. However, you omitted to give orders for your regiment of dismounted feudal knights, so it stands beside you in reserve. This is what you can make out of the situation at the start of the battle:
https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/...ackw0saos0.jpg
Your second in command is worried that you have dispersed the six divisions that form the army. He suggests that you form new divisions immediately. (You will only be able to give orders to 6 groups of units. I suggested six groupings in the Word document SHA2_units, but with your deployment it would probably be best to form new groupings. If you attempt to form new groupings during combat, confusion may lead to orders getting lost.)
Please give orders for each division (group) for the first movement phase (morning). Regiments will be able to march to the enemy line and enter combat. However, infantry vs infantry combats will not be resolved this phase (crossing the battlefield takes so long, there is less time for melee). Cavalry combats will be resolved.
Deployments received, thanks. :2thumbsup:
Feedback has been supplied by PM. Please PM me orders for turn 2 (morning phase) within 24 hours.
Ideally, supply another jpg of where you expect your units to be at the end of your move.
The deadline for the morning turn orders has expired.
I have received no orders from Warluster.
EDIT: Feedback now sent to the protaganists.
Deadline for submission of orders: 24 hours from the editing of this post.
Morning phase: orders
No orders received from Warluster => men just hold position.
Orders received for Hummel:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Morning phase - feedback
Feedback to Hummel
Your men march smoothly into position as you had ordered. The enemy appears not to move. Your missile units on the hill are out of range and if the enemy stays put will not be able to fire.
This is what you see of the battlefield:
https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/...acki1saum1.jpg
Please give orders for the early afternoon phase. Given that your army is now close to the enemy's, it is possible that even infantry combats will be resolved in the coming phase.
BTW: Ignoramus, if you use jpg pictures (e.g. in Paint), then you should have less problem uploading them - they tend to be rather small.
Deadline for orders: 24 hours hence. (The deadline after that will be 48 hours given your unavailability on Sunday).
Feedback to von Salza
You give no orders to your men, so they stand in position. You see the bulk of the enemy army emerge and begin to advance towards you. This is what you can make out from the battlefield:
https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/...ackw1salv7.jpg
Your missile units are just out of range, but if the enemy crosses the road, will be able to fire.
Please give orders for the early afternoon phase. Given that your army is now close to the enemy's, it is possible that even infantry combats will be resolved in the coming phase.
Deadline for orders: 24 hours hence. (The deadline after that will be 48 hours given Ignoramus's unavailability on Sunday).
Early afternoon orders
No orders received from von Salza.
Orders received from Hummel:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Deadline for early afternoon orders has expired. No orders received from Warluster.
Feedback to both generals:
The two armies enjoy a hearty lunch.
Deadline for mid-afternoon orders: 48 hours from this post.
If there is no combat by that time, I'm inclined to autoresolve the battle.
This is very disappointing. If Warluster does not submit orders for next turn, I authorize you to resolve the battle in whatever manner you see fit, with the exception that Athalwolf von Salza must lose, preferably in a complete rout. I will not allow Warluster any chance at victory when he consistently fails to submit orders. I have checked his profile repeatedly and he has been on the forums for both of the last two days during the time when orders were still pending on each day. Indeed, he has posted numerous times in other forums. Thus, he was active and aware of the situation and simply failed to respond. That is unacceptable.
how are we planning on resolving this is iggy wins the war? is the principality of swabia going to be an independent protectorate, granted piece and land in exchange for service?
I would imagine we'll make it up as we go along, though it sure could use some discussion on the OOC thread.
Orders for mid-afternoon received from Warluster - awaiting those from Ignoramus.
Supplementary feedback sent to Hummel:
The battle is currently a standoff. However, a messenger arrives informing you that the Danes are about to assault Bruges. Unless you bring this battle to a quick conclusion, you will not have a chance to intervene. You must press the attack if you are to save your capital.
OOC: If you commit to a serious assault in the mid-afternoon turn by the Monday deadline, we will continue to hold the game in the 1326 turn and let the battle move to a conclusion in the next 2-3 turns. If you do not order such an assault (e.g. if you order just a probing attack or a missile exchange), then we will end the turn, but von Salza and Hummel will remain locked in battle - which can continue in its current leisurely pace.
Mid-afternoon orders
From Von Salza
Move my Mounted Crossbowmen behind my lines. I expect Wolfgang and his troops to come from the other forest. When the charge, which they will, and because they can't see my Imperial Knights and 3 Units of Spearmen, tell my troops in the forest to get out of Wolfgang's way, still hidden, and when he rides clean through, close in on him and slaughter with my hidden troops and my Mounted Sergeants.
Prepare for Side and Frontal Attack by Imperial Knights.
When Wolfgang is beaten in the forest attack any reinforcements, if none go and help the battle.
No orders for mid-afternoon received from Ignoramus.
Feedback for mid-afternoon turn:
Neither army appears willing to make the first move. The only movement is that von Salza's mounted crossbowmen retire to the rear of his lines.
Orders for late afternoon turn required within 24 hours of this post.
Note: there will also be an evening turn, then a night turn where movement is possible but visibility is very low and there is a significant risk of orders not being implemented correctly due to confusion. After that, there will be up to seven regular daylight turns.
Given the delay in getting this battle underway, I recommend that we treat it as spanning the end of the 1326 turn and the beginning of the 1328 turn. That way TinCow can press end turn and sort out other player's moves/battles for 1328. I also recommend that the eventual victor of this battle be unable to move in 1328 - they were locked in battle, then licking their wounds.
Late afternoon orders
From Hummel:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Deadline for orders expired.
Orders for late afternoon received from Ignoramus.
No new orders received from Warluster.
Resolving late afternoon phase now.
Late Afternoon
Gamesmaster notes
The Outer West Flank:
Hummel’s men advance to the brow of the southern hill as indicated on his diagram. Von Salza’s left wing retires down the slope, trying to “get out of the way” as von Salza ordered in mid-afternoon. The loyalist left wing remains concealed - along with the regiment of mounted sergeants - but has no where else to go and still remain hidden.
The Inner West Flank
Seeing the advance of the rebels and frustrated by their lack of orders, the crossbowmen on the ridge stand and begin firing into the pikemen approaching them. They inflict significant casualties - virtually the equivalent of an entire regiment of pikemen - but cannot hold their ground and are forced to withdraw down the reverse slope.
Units lost: one regiment of rebel Flemish pikemen.
The Centre
Hummel’s foot knights advance, under fire from the single regiment of loyalist crossbowmen. As the rebels close, the crossbowmen are forced to withdraw. The reserve regiment of dismounted feudal knights is sent to replace them, but it is clear that the loyalists are outclassed. In the bitter melee, the rebel foot knights carve through the loyalist spearmen but the loyal foot knights fight bravely and almost to the last man.
Units lost: loyalist DFK, spear and mercenary pikemen regiments
one regiment of rebel DFK
The East Flank
Hummel’s knights approach from the flank and charge, but the loyalists have been told to “prepare” for such a charge. Although the rebel pavise crossbowmen inflict significant casualties, the charge of the rebel knights is held and the rebel cavalry effectively eliminated.
Units lost: all three regiments of rebel imperial knights; loyalists DIK and von Salza’s escort
Feedback on late evening turn
Hummel
You lead your right wing up the southern most hill. As you approach, two regiments of von Salza’s pavise crossbowmen begin firing from the crest of the hill. Their volleys inflict terrible casualties on your Flemish pikemen and you lose the equivalent of an entire regiment. However, the crossbowmen appear unsupported and retire to the base of the reverse slope. All along the crest, your right wing dominates the hill. The slope of the hill below you is wooded down to the base. You still see no sign of the turncoat regiment of spearmen in von Salza’s army that are loyal to you.
You ride to the crest of the hill, so that you can see the situation elsewhere on the battlefield. This is what you can see:
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/26...track4ijc8.jpg
In the centre, your foot knights have broken through - driving all opposition before them. They are now opposed by only some loyalist skirmishers.
On the left wing of the battle, things have not gone so well for your army. Your cavalry appears to have been completely routed off the field. However, the loyalists also have suffered badly - von Salza appears to have no escort and your crossbowmen are inflicting terrible damage on the remaining loyalists.
Evening has come - you have time to order one last push before darkness falls. After that, night will allow either you or von Salza to withdraw from the battle unimpeded.
Von Salza
This is what you can see of the battle:
https://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...track4wbx1.jpg
As you anticipated, Hummel has emerged through the woods on the left. However, he has not turned significantly towards you and exposed himself to your concealed spears as you hoped. Instead, his troops advanced forward up the hill. Your left flank followed your orders and kept hidden, out of Hummel’s way. To do this, it had to retire to the base of the reverse slope. Now Hummel’s men dominate the entire crest of the hill. Many of your men are concealed: the spearmen, the knights, mounted sergeants and zweihanders. However, they have little scope for manoeuvre. If they move even the slightest distance, they will be detected. If Hummel starts to march down the hill even to the smallest degree, they will be detected.
Your crossbowmen did terrible damage to the advancing rebels. However, it has not been enough to stop them taking the hill. Nor did it prevent the massed foot knights of the rebel army carving through your centre. Your archers are now unsupported in the centre of your line.
The only good news is on your right, where the charge of the Imperial knights that you anticipated was decisively crushed. The cost was high, however, with the loss of the equivalent of a regiment of foot knights and all your escort (your unit remains on the map to mark your position, but cannot operate as a combat unit). Your men are underfire from massed rebel crossbowmen and will soon be eliminated unless you do something.
Evening has come. You have to endure another round of fighting before darkness falls. Night will allow either you or Hummel to withdraw from the battle unimpeded.
Feedback sent to both players on late afternoon phase.
The deadline for submission of orders for the evening phase is 24 hours from this post, but if I receive two sets of orders, I will resolve it sooner.
After the evening turn, it will night. This will give either army an opportunity to withdraw from the battle without suffering further casualties.
Further notes on the night turn:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Evening phase orders
Hummel:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Von Salza:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
Evening turn orders received from both players - resolving now.
Evening Phase
Gamesmaster notes
Von Salza pulls back his army as Hummel's charges forward. Since Hummel's army lacks cavalry, von Salza is able to form up. However, it has no time to fire more than a single volley.
As Hummel signals to the "turncoat" regiment in von Salza's army, it switches sides. However, the defection has no immediate effect as the regiment is unable to engage the rest of von Salza's army which is withdrawing to form a square.
Nonetheless, the defection leaves von Salza with only three spear regiments and one Zweihander regiment to attempt to form square. Against him are massed four full spear regiments, one regiment of Zweihanders, one of pikes and two of DFKs. Von Salza has something of an advantage in cavalry, but it is not enough - Hummel's escort is more than a match for the loyalist Imperial knights and the light loyalist cavalry is not enough to overturn the imbalance in infantry.
The rebel infantry charge the loyalist heavy infantry and overwhelm it, destroying it completely. von Salza uses his cavalry to screen the withdrawal of his archers. He uses the cover of night to retreat from the battle.
Loyalist losses: all heavy infantry
Rebel losses: the 42 mercenary spearmen and 13 armoured sergeants.
https://img209.imageshack.us/img209/...rack5sabh3.jpg
Feedback on the evening phase
Hummel:
As you order your charge, you see many of von Salza's regiments emerge from the wooded slopes below you. They are retreating! Your men pursue them. The turncoat armoured sergeants are on the far left of von Salza's line and they observe your standard, turning their retreat into a pursuit.
Von Salza attempts to form a square to hold off your onslaught, but he is outnumbered 2:1 in heavy infantry. Moreover, your army still includes a sizable presence of foot knights and formiddable pikemen. With relatively modest loss, you destroy von Salza's square.
However, you lack sufficient cavalry to pursue your defeated opponent and he uses the cover of night to slip away, with most of his cavalry and crossbowmen in tact.
Von Salza:
As you order your withdrawal, you see Hummel's men charge down on you. You hastily pull your men back and try to form a square. However, you are mortified to find the veteran armoured sergeants who "defected" to you at Rheims have turned coat and are now on Hummel's side. You have no time to bring your many crossbows to bear. The battle is decided by heavy infantry and in that arm, you are outnumbered 2:1 as well as outclassed. Your square collapses. Your cavalry is not sufficient to turn the tables, but it does screen your withdrawal. Under cover of darkness, your archers and cavalry begin the trek back to Rheims.