EB cavalry

I have read that the Cavalry in EB is supposed to be much more effective than the cavalry in RTW vanilla but I have found the opposite to be true. Is there some secret to cavalry tactics in EB than is any different than RTW vanilla? I know not to attack spearmen head on and everything but I have found that they will quickly die in combat that lasts more than a few seconds regardless of the circumstances. I am afraid to make them withdraw because they always lose a few more men as they are getting out.

Learn to use cavalry.Cavalry are supposed to be flankers,morale breakers,not melee troops.

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Originally Posted by Diamondj

I have read that the Cavalry in EB is supposed to be much more effective than the cavalry in RTW vanilla

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Yes and no.

The charge of the EB cavalry is much more effective, but it is hardly able to hold itself long against foot in a pitched fighting, especially against speermen. The RTW cavalry was more like mediavel knights, able to win a battle on its own; the EB horsemen always need support by infantry and have a more auxillary role. That is more accurate.

cavalry in EB is all about charge. And you need to do a good one to take the full charge bonus: afaik the cavalry unit has to be stationary when it starts, have a decent speed (so fatigue can reduce the effectiveness of the charge), and the target unit has to be blocked in melee or running towards the cavalry (not fleeing from it).
In vanilla in properly used even the weakest light cavalry could change the outcome of the battle by just flanking every unit and staying in melee (I remember winning a lot of battles with the sloppy carthaginian sword cavalry), in EB the frontal charges are limited only to the heaviest bodyguard cav and against dagger wearing troops (archers/skirmishers), anything with a short sword or better can beat cav units in prolonged melee combat

So is it better just to keep charging and retreating or just allowing cavalry to remain in combat

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Originally Posted by Diamondj

So is it better just to keep charging and retreating or just allowing cavalry to remain in combat

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Usually it's better to charge, pull out, and charge again, as long as necessary.

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Originally Posted by Diamondj

So is it better just to keep charging and retreating or just allowing cavalry to remain in combat

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in melee cav is not effective and can take heavy losses, even if you use the secondary weapon (shortswords usually, with higher attack then lances but less lethality, so doesn't help much), it's better a strategy of repeated charges, but you have to manage the fatigue, expecially with cataphracts and the like

There are a few "melee" cavalry, but that type of thing is clearly stated in their description, and even then, they can't go head-on with spears.


Lonchophoroi are a example of this.

I think we at EB rather have come to the realization that the hallmark of cavalry, regardless of type, is tactical flexibility; In normal circumstances they can outrun any infantry, and they are able to pack a punch (To certain degrees individually). The heaviest of cavalry can give the heaviest of infantry a run for their money, but for clear reasons, they will never be as good in melee. Another important thing to remember is that the player more or less is reluctant to sacrifice cavalry than infantry, one factor is the cost, the other is that infantry in general lacks that decisive punch of surprise that only cavalry is able to provide (By a swift flank attack to the wings or the rear).

One should not forget the fundamental military axioms of the infantry being the bedrock, bulwark or the anchor in battle, and cavalry being the "arms"; Something that has been attested in the "hammer and anvil" tactic. Now of course, there will always be room for expansion or improvement to the statistics, and currently we have some ideas on how to "improve" cavalry, but we cannot break the fundamental principles of these axioms. Only a very few cavalry in the game are able to be battle-winners, but their abilities are off-set by a high expenditure range, restrictions to recruitment, and the fact that there are ways to counter them, more so than in Vanilla. Soon, much thanks to the capabilities of M2TW, we may consider even more ways of restricting the usage of extremely heavy armed and armoured cavalry; They should decide battles through shrewd deployment, not because their leader are able to spam them endlessly with exclusively heavy cataphract armies.

Some observations after several Pontic Campaigns

(1) Cavalry charges work best against a unit that is either stationary or moving towards the cavalry. When the target is running away from the charge, the force of the impact isn't as strong, and then they will turn and engage the cavalry in melee. The goal is to send the men flying; indeed, in many ways this is the cavalry's most effective weapon.

(2) To send men flying, your horses need to have the energy and will to smash will all their force into a wall of men. This means that cavalry charges work best when the cavalry unit is Fresh or Warmed up. It is very difficult to get the proper impact effects if your horses are tired. Don't ask them to charge long distances, and avoid long melee with cavalry or infantry. Cavalry seems to tire quickly when engaged.

(3) Formula: charge and retreat, charge and retreat, charge and retreat to a very safe distance and rest. When I say charge and retreat, I mean instantly; do not keep your cavalry in the fray for longer than a few seconds (especially if you have light cavalry). If you have multiple cavalry units, and you are trying to take down a phalanx, time it so the cavalry alternate when they hit, each time smashing into the rear or sides as the Phalanx is turning to face the other horses.

(4) Almost always, the second best method is to charge two cavalry units into both flanks of one unit simultaneously.

(5) But the best overall tactic, is to use all of these methods when the infantry units you've targeted are engaged with your infantry, and their focus is to the front and have no idea that soon heavy horse will be smashing into their rear.

(6) As for cavalry v. cavalry, the best strategy I have is to keep a unit of light infantry near my cavalry (extremely light, skirmishers, are perfect, but lgiht spears are better). If you charge your cavalry in to theirs, then its a roll of the dice because cavalry clashes are wars of attrition. You need to change the odds. Surrounding the enemy horses from the rear with light infantry does the trick. Also, this way if your cavalry are taking it badly and need to leave, your infantry can screen as they exit. A few moments of rest, and a subsequent charge into the occupied enemy cavalry (like above in (3)) can do the trick.

In addition to everything said above, make sure the cavalry isn't blocked or has to change directions during the charge (e.g. an allied infantry unit or trees get in your way during the charge, or you have to turn a corner in a city battle). This will really weaken the charge.

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Originally Posted by Callicles

(1) Cavalry charges work best against a unit that is either stationary or moving towards the cavalry.

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I have made good experinces with charging infantry into attacking cavalry. The cavalry needs some distance to reach full speed for the impact. With closing the distance you might be able to soften the effect of the charge.

As tatic I would add that charging with one cav unit and retreating it just in time a second unit cherges works as fine in less time tan using them all at the same time