Soldiers don't follow orders.

I'm having a real problem with my soldiers not doing what I say.
For example in my Rome campaign I ordered my Acensei to flank and fire into a Phalanx moving towards my line but do they do that? No, instead one unit runs into and melee attacks some Hoplitai while the other unit fires into some Akontistai.
Another example, I ordered my cavalry to charge into some Toxetai that were flanking me but do they do that? No, they decide to charge into the local, neighborhood Phalanx and get murdered.

Has anyone else had this problem? I have it at least once in every single battle I fight, no matter what faction i'm playing as.

I've found that if any of the soldiers in a unit "snag" on an enemy, the entire unit converges on that enemy. I suspect that is what happened to you Accensi and yout cavalry. If you repeatedly issue the order to move/withdraw, however, eventually they'll get the message.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Xehh II

I'm having a real problem with my soldiers not doing what I say.
For example in my Rome campaign I ordered my Acensei to flank and fire into a Phalanx moving towards my line but do they do that? No, instead one unit runs into and melee attacks some Hoplitai while the other unit fires into some Akontistai.
Another example, I ordered my cavalry to charge into some Toxetai that were flanking me but do they do that? No, they decide to charge into the local, neighborhood Phalanx and get murdered.

Has anyone else had this problem? I have it at least once in every single battle I fight, no matter what faction i'm playing as.

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have you taken your Accensi out of skirmish mode? if missile troops are left in skirmish mode they will try to skirmish away from the closest unit moving towards them...and right into another unit that is stationary or located behind them. also, turn off fire at will, units that 'skirmish away' will, when they stop moving, start firing at some random unit (don't know how the battlefield AI decides how to pick a target)

what type of cavalry unit were you using? if your cav were 'skirmisher cav (this does include the Tarentine Elite Cav, plus most gallic/germanic merc cav)'
you have to get them out of skirmish mode before they will charge properly. it could also have been that there were some men from the Toxotai unit mixed in with the Phalangitai and that is where the AI decided to target those Toxotai.

Missle units usually do not follow orders to target enemy units in the second line when there is another unit between them and the target. They will shoot on that unit instead. Sollution: none, that I know of.

Another problem are units in formation: when you order the entire formation to attack a specific enemy unit and there are other enemy units closer to some of the units in your formation they will attack those instead. Sollution: give the order to every single unit in your formation.

On the slingers: Units in larger formation, espacially if these happen to be in wide order, might 'crash' with enemy units when ordered to manouver close to the enemy. Even skirmish mode won't prevent a melee in this case. Sollution: Move them like ships. Give them a destination far from the enemy formation, and once the got 'clear' the enemy, move them in again.

Solution I use:

first right click & drag to set the formation width & depth;
next order them to move away from your flanks (so if you would go for flanking manoeuvres against the left flank, you let them march a good distance to the right before you actually start flanking);
-then move them around the enemy flank;
-attack.

Me and madmatg had the same issue in MP back when it worked on .81x.

Here is the solutions we came up with:

How to get Archers/skerimishers to attack a specific unit rather than the ones surrounding it.
1-UNselect auto fire (meaning that they won't shoot unless u tell them to)
2-UNgroup them (don't have them in a group)

NOW: select of of them via Ctl+click or whatever & have them shoot. This is the only way to have ur ALL ur missiles shoot at a specific unit that is surrounded by others.

How to get cavarly (regular & skermisher) to charge a specific unit that is sorrouned by others.
1-UNgroup them(don't have them in a group)

NOW: use Ctl+click/C to select all ur cavarly units and have them attack the "specific" unit u want. (btw u need to be careful with pressing "C" because sometimes u put ur cavarly in loose formation by mistake, its just the timing of Ctl+C, so u have to make sure they get back into tight formation)

WHY????

Well missiles will shoot at WHOMEVER is closet to them. And if u have them in a group, they will be shooting at different targets when ur target is surrounded by other units.

Cavarly when u tell it to attack and the cavarly is in a group u run into trouble. IF one of ur cavarly squadrons is touching an enemy soldier from another unit that cavarly squadron will charge at that unit and NOT charge the intended target.

hope this helps

I've always put this down to vanilla RTW buggeyness but off the top of my head there are a couple of points I will bring up in case theres some obvious fix I've missed (plus perhaps it's just me? I've never looked...)

Firstly, quite often my units literally don't follow orders...at all. Or even appear to still be concious. They just stand, each man frozen to the spot, in a large, useless blob. Sometimes they show as engaged in melee (sometimes a stray man from the unit is, sometimes no enemies are to be seen), sometimes just appear to be playing statues for the hell of it.

Secondly, often when manoeuvring units (especially in close quarters) they decide to form some bizarre twisting circle pit. Again exact results vary, sometimes they swirl around a little then turn out as ordered (I can live with), sometimes they just appear to "knot" themselves and stay in a wierd little spiral.

As I said I've always just lived with this but as the threads here anyway...

Any comments?

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Originally Posted by overweightninja

I've always put this down to vanilla RTW buggeyness but off the top of my head there are a couple of points I will bring up in case theres some obvious fix I've missed (plus perhaps it's just me? I've never looked...)

Firstly, quite often my units literally don't follow orders...at all. Or even appear to still be concious. They just stand, each man frozen to the spot, in a large, useless blob. Sometimes they show as engaged in melee (sometimes a stray man from the unit is, sometimes no enemies are to be seen), sometimes just appear to be playing statues for the hell of it.

Secondly, often when manoeuvring units (especially in close quarters) they decide to form some bizarre twisting circle pit. Again exact results vary, sometimes they swirl around a little then turn out as ordered (I can live with), sometimes they just appear to "knot" themselves and stay in a wierd little spiral.

As I said I've always just lived with this but as the threads here anyway...

Any comments?

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too vage a post to provide any help...:thumbsdown:

1-what unit
2-under what conditions
3-sieging?
4-after the enemy disengaded and retreated (not routing)
5-are they throwing a pila/javeling?
6-are they with "HOLD" on?
7- etc.....

Well, according to what you guys are saying, it seems the only thing I'm doing wrong is that I group my units.
So grouping units makes them retarded, ae?
I didn't know that, thanks for helping me.

I've occasionally had a unit that claimed to be in combat (which in turn made its ability to follow orders quite screwy), and when I zoomed in to check it out, there was usually one guy who appeared to be locked in combat with a corpse. No enemies anyway, but the guy was constantly feinting and acting like he was getting hit, and I was even able to mouse over his "opponent", which was, in fact, a dead body (I've even gotten the pop-up information on it saying, for example, "Phalangitai Deuteroi (Macedonia): 0". Yep, the number of soldiers in the unit that was causing my own to show up in combat was zero.

I have also issued orders to unit that they've completely ignored. Usually, if I order them a few more times, they eventually follow through, but it's not that rare that I'll issue an order, they'll pretend to start, then quit.

The circle-knot is infuriating. It's especially problematic when you're attempting to get phalangite units to do anything.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Landwalker

I've occasionally had a unit that claimed to be in combat (which in turn made its ability to follow orders quite screwy), and when I zoomed in to check it out, there was usually one guy who appeared to be locked in combat with a corpse. No enemies anyway, but the guy was constantly feinting and acting like he was getting hit, and I was even able to mouse over his "opponent", which was, in fact, a dead body (I've even gotten the pop-up information on it saying, for example, "Phalangitai Deuteroi (Macedonia): 0". Yep, the number of soldiers in the unit that was causing my own to show up in combat was zero.

I have also issued orders to unit that they've completely ignored. Usually, if I order them a few more times, they eventually follow through, but it's not that rare that I'll issue an order, they'll pretend to start, then quit.

The circle-knot is infuriating. It's especially problematic when you're attempting to get phalangite units to do anything.

Cheers.

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you should give WAY ample time for phalanxes to move into position - my experiences with phalangites have been frustrating as well....once committed to a an action in the beginning of the battle, they should really not be told to do anything else except at the end when all the enemies are routing, you can break formation and chase

else, make sure you get your pre-battle deployment exactly right.

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Originally Posted by NeoSpartan

too vage a post to provide any help...:thumbsdown:

1-what unit
2-under what conditions
3-sieging?
4-after the enemy disengaded and retreated (not routing)
5-are they throwing a pila/javeling?
6-are they with "HOLD" on?
7- etc.....

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I figured if someone else knew what I was talking about that would be sufficient. Nonetheless...

1. Any
2. Any for frozen units, as I said the twisting tends to happen more often in close quarters and at the end of bridges and stuff but also in open field etc
3. Doesn't seem to make a difference (although obviously settlements = close quarters)
4. In the case of frozen units, possible, I don't remember them being involved in any fights after being frozen (although I would have tried to guide the battle away I imagine), but most would have been fighting before, possibly their target completely eliminated?.
5. Doesn't appear to make any difference, as I've said any units seem to suffer.
6. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
7. Feel free to ask for further clarification :)

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Originally Posted by Landwalker

I have also issued orders to unit that they've completely ignored. Usually, if I order them a few more times, they eventually follow through, but it's not that rare that I'll issue an order, they'll pretend to start, then quit.

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Yup get that too :(

I don't just get the circle with Phalangites though....

As I said, appears to me like hardcoded tomfoolery :(

Cheers

All these are RTW game engine bugs/design choices & EB can't fix them.

The circle/swirly unit is a game engine buggy/odd way of getting units to re-form.
If they take casualties before completing the re-form, they start over again.
Most of the time if left alone they'll work their way out of it eventually.
Sometimes a new command can snap them out of it but other times it just starts the spiral afresh...

Buggy one or two guys locked in combat seems to be again a game engine bug where sometimes that guy in your unit doesn't realise that he killed the guy he was fighting & gets locked in unwinnable combat (& renders his entire unit all but unusable for the rest of the battle)
It seems to particularly occur with bridges/building corners/on walls & in other locations where unit pathing gets weird.

Grouped units attacking whatever is nearest to each of the grouped units is I think intentional design.
Sometimes its really handy (eg for cleaning up routers) but most of the time something of a pain.
To bypass, either give the attack orders to each unit in the group one at a time or ungroup before giving the order.

Alt+attack forces skirmisher units to attack in melee (& disables skirmish mode so they'll actually close)

I'm too lazy to check if this has been mentioned already, but switching guard mode on prevents the enemy from "snagging" your units into melee. In fact there's an exploit, which some of you are probably (accidentally or not) using, in which units that are defending against an attack with guard mode on suffer no exhaustion.

Units in guard mode do suffer exhaustion, it's just very, very slow.

I notice some units die faster on guard mode, though. Notably, my Neitos and other sword infantry.

I'd expect that guard mode would best best for Def. units, swordsmen aren't really that defensive.

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Originally Posted by overweightninja

I figured if someone else knew what I was talking about that would be sufficient. Nonetheless...

1. Any
2. Any for frozen units, as I said the twisting tends to happen more often in close quarters and at the end of bridges and stuff but also in open field etc
3. Doesn't seem to make a difference (although obviously settlements = close quarters)
4. In the case of frozen units, possible, I don't remember them being involved in any fights after being frozen (although I would have tried to guide the battle away I imagine), but most would have been fighting before, possibly their target completely eliminated?.
5. Doesn't appear to make any difference, as I've said any units seem to suffer.
6. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
7. Feel free to ask for further clarification :)

...

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Ok I'll give you some "general guidelines" when it comes to units. I don't have the issue you describe with ANY unit, but they do occur with some more than others.

-Twisting around & not fighting.
--Generaly occurs with phalanxs on close quarters (cities, bridges, etc), it also happens in openfileds too.
--Spear units or any infantry unit that have a VERY CLOSE formation (hoplites, soldurus, etc) have this tendensy too, but too a lesser degree of occurance.
--Spread out infantry rarely has this issue.
---This issue usually occurs when a unit is told to:
1-Move or shift formation. (HOLD can be On or Off)
2-Attack another unit. (with HOLD On)
3-A Phalanx in phalnax formation is told to move, attack, whatever. IF the phalanx has HOLD Off, it may even walk backwards and allow gaps in ur line to occur.
4-A unit is under attack, BUT u have not told them to engage.

In Siege its even more comon, especially with tight units, and even more so with phalanxes. Of phanlanx units, PIKES tend to be the most prone to do stupid stuff, and of all pike units, LEVY PIKES are the most disorganized (they take longer than Pezetaroi (sp) to stop circuling around and do it more often).
--Same story in bridges.

ANY unit in HOLD will mess its formation up. It can turn and give its back to the enemy it is facing. PLUS the units at the edges don't do anything and allow circling units to kill them without opposition. KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THIS it is extremely annoyoing. Hold also causes a few units to fight while the bulk of the group stays well behind.

When the enemy disengages and runs back ur units will stay in fighinting mode, walking forward VERY slowly with thier shilds up. (and getting a fatige penalty).

Fighting of courpese or gost units happens to every unit. Its annoying when it happens to cavarly though.

When trowing a pila/javeling ur men will stay put, NOT defend, get thier javeling out and NOT throw it. All the time they are getting killed. Common to any unit.

When a unit is attack and u DON'T tell it to attack only a few men will engage the rest will stay put, sometimes even getting killed.

IF in a middle of a fight the u tell ur men to attack, BUT there are 2 enemy units mush together, your men will attack the unit u told them to. And IF that units is behind the enemy mush, ur unit will try to walk throught the other infantry unit while getting killed and RARELY defending. Keep an eye for this, especially when enemy units start routing, and when u tell ur cavarly to charge.

make sure u 2X check what u tell ur units to do. Make sure u keep an eye on the type of unit, make sure u have Hold on or off, make sure ur attacking the intended target, and make sure u tell ur units to attack when they get attacked (sounds silly but its true test it, you will see a few of ur men defending and other not doing anything, BUT once u tell them to attack they will do a 2step charge and all engage).

I am not getting into cavarly, or skermishers..... that why I asked for u to be specific. I hope u can read throught what I posted and make sence of it. Problems have a tendency to overlap.


BTW on the subject of swords and spears and HOLD formation. There is an old thread about it. Where that issue was discussed but FYI:
-Sword units will do worst in HOLD in the long run. They kill less, and the enemy has to get REAL close for them to respond. And if ur sword unit is facing a spear unit, even an inferior spear, it will loose (especially if that spear unit is on HOLD, the longer reach will kill ur swordmen without them doing any damage).

-SO: use swordsmen in normal mode most of the time. ONLY have them in Hold when u want them to tie up an enemy unit. Especially true when ur using levy swordsmen, they last longer this way.